I made a tool for applying 3D LUTs to the Windows desktop

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  • #36364

    EP98
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    Errors are high

    I turned tone map of in the display. I dont know whats causing the issue. Im using a oled. Small window size. Insert black pattern every few moments,.

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    #36372

    Vincent
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    ABL x device link?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Vincent.
    #36402

    EP98
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    Probably abl. I did the smallest patch size to try to overcome it. And insert black and white frames. Other then that I don’t know.

    #36403

    Raj S
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    It will always be tricky to profile an OLED because of the protection features, but I will try and give you some tips:

    • Try using the “Maximise luma difference” or “Maximise lightness difference” algorithm.
    • Enable the “black background” checkbox.
    • Use a faster calibration speed (High or Medium).
    • Have a bigger delay between patches (minimum display update delay 0.65s) to let the display’s auto-dimming stabilise first.

    As always, make sure all additional processing and energy saving features are switched off in the TV’s menu before attempting calibration. SDR and HDR can have different settings so sometimes you have to disable it in both modes.

    Also try looking into if you can turn off ABL or auto dimming on Sony OLEDs. I know on LG OLEDs you can go in the service menu and disable “TPC” + “ASBL”. Maybe Sony has a similar feature?

    Is there any reason why you’re not relying on the TV’s CMS for calibration? Doing a manual calibration of the TV might be an easier approach. Maybe it’ll be accurate enough through the TV controls. If not, you can always try a 3DLUT later. At least the 3DLUT will deliver a better result because the TV has already been pre-calibrated. It’s a win-win.

    #36404

    Patrick1978
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    How do I properly calibrate for HDR?

    For calibration I activated Windows HDR. Then I put SDR peak white slider to 100% in windows display settings. Because without that I only get 120 nits.

    DisplayCAL by itself can’t calibrate HDR.  The fact that changing the SDR brightness control in windows changes your output brightness tells me that it’s outputting a SDR signal that windows is tone mapping into HDR to send to your monitor.

    There may be other ways to do it but one way I think will work is you can install madVR then in DisplayCAL in the Display dropdown select madVR.  You can then setup madVR to output in HDR and calibrate though that.

    I haven’t bothered trying to calibrate HDR myself so I  can’t recommend any specific settings to get it to work well.  Everything I’ve heard is that trying to calibrate HDR is a waste of time since the tone mapping gives you unpredictable results.

    #36409

    Vincent
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    Is there any reason why you’re not relying on the TV’s CMS for calibration? Doing a manual calibration of the TV might be an easier approach. Maybe it’ll be accurate enough through the TV controls. If not, you can always try a 3DLUT later. At least the 3DLUT will deliver a better result because the TV has already been pre-calibrated. It’s a win-win.

    For SDR using CMS and limit gamut  to Rec709 and then use 10-20 ppoint grayscale to fix white gamma and grey color  will be the best approach since this can be used without computer for TV or Bluray or online TV services (SDR).

    For HDR most TVs have locked all features but IDNK his model.

    But for LUT3D using madVR or other computer software you want full native gamut so using TV’s CMS will be usefull to get a neutral grey with 10-20 grayscale and nothing more.

    #36410

    EP98
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    The uploaded results earlier was all of the auto dim features and processing turned off. With tone map turned off.

    I don’t think you can’t turn off abl and tpc on Sony.

    I’m trying to calibrate the A95K, QD-OLED. The heat sink is all it has to try to mitigate abl.

    For 3D LUT creation to use with DWM_LUT GUI, I don’t bother with the Calibration tab. I set to everything as measured.

    White Level, Black Level, Tone Curve as measured.

    White Point is the only thing I set in that tab which I set to D65. To assist pre calibration manual white point set up on the TV.

    Calibration speed is not accessible. It is only accessible when Tone Cuvre is set to anything other then As Measured.

    I have found with 3D LUT creation for DWM_LUT Gui, that setting tone curve just unnecessarily adds to the Calibration time. That tab is only for a 1D LUT creation which shouldn’t be needed in a 3D LUT and DWM_LUT GUI. I set gamma in the 3D LUT tab and the 3D LUT should take care of gamma.

    So everything except for White Point D65 in the Calibration tab is set to as measured. 3D LUT tab set to 709 source colorspace, tone curve 2.4 for Netflix movies. Input/Output encoding full range. 3D LUT file to .cube format.  Windows Profile set to sRGB IEC611966-2.1.

    And after calibration, load profile in DWM_LUT GUI to enable, with everything is left at default in the Verification tab, only with device link unchecked so I can verify if  DWM_LUT GUI is properly using the profile.

    And for SDR 3D LUT still comes out accurate with accurate 2.4 gamma tracking.

    Its only HDR calibration that gives me trouble.

    Mad VR is only limited range. For DWM_LUT GUI it expects full range output/input so I don’t think calibrating in mad vr will work? And expects  cube format.

    Is there a way to set to full range input/output to full? I want to also verify after calibration with HDR YouTube Videos.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by EP98.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by EP98.
    #36415

    dogelition
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    Mad VR is only limited range. For DWM_LUT GUI it expects full range output/input so I don’t think calibrating in mad vr will work? And expects  cube format.

    AFAIK even if you use limited range for the measurements, you can still generate a full range 3D LUT without any issues.

    #36416

    Raj S
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    For HDR most TVs have locked all features but IDNK his model.

    I think with Sony OLEDs, you just calibrate the SDR mode and it generates the HDR settings from that. I’m not sure though.

    And for SDR 3D LUT still comes out accurate with accurate 2.4 gamma tracking.

    Its only HDR calibration that gives me trouble.

    I think it’s an APL issue in HDR. In HDR it may be auto adjusting the gamma based on APL (how bright the stuff on screen is). Other software like HCFR and Calman let you set APL – this adjusts the background of each patch to be the opposite brightness of what the patch is. That keeps the APL consistent the whole time. I don’t think DisplayCAL has a similar feature. Maybe try disabling “black background” and instead set your desktop background to white (solid color), disable desktop icons, disable taskbar. That means DisplayCAL will just show the patch over a white background. That will force a high APL which means the patch colour won’t make the APL adjust.

    If you’re worried about burn-in with a full white background, you can always try light grey or dark grey. But I don’t think it will be a big issue with QD-OLED.

    #36417

    EP98
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    White Background would be 950 nits.

    In Calman or ColourSpace or even HCFR how do you set apl for HDR calibration?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by EP98.
    #36419

    EP98
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    Windows SDR setting under HDR still shifts brighness even with MadVR TPG.

    #36435

    The Real MC Kid
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    I am getting screen flickering when G-Sync is enabled in Nvidia Control Panel and LUTs are applied with your tool. This problem also occurs with novideo_srgb. What can I do to resolve this?

    #36436

    stama
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    @EP98, instead of using dwm_lut you can indeed perform a manual hardware calibration of the TV in SDR mode. The HDR calibration will be fine after that as Sony TVs use math to derive the HDR calibration from the SDR one. That’s what Sony themselves recommend in their calibration document for Calman. You can find that document, as well as more details on a post in the avsforum thread here. Do note that you need to calibrate the TV in a specific mode, according to that document: with gamma set to 2.2 and Peak luminance Medium, etc. The advantage of doing it this way is that you will have the TV calibrated not only for displaying PC output, but also for its internal streaming apps an for the TV content itself (as long as you use the same settings for TV input).

    In case of creating a 3D LUT for dwm_lut for Windows HDR calibration… it’s difficult.

    You’ll notice that most people say to use madVR but not while Windows HDR is active. That’s to guarantee that madVR will use the (now deprecated) nvAPI to trigger the display HDR10 mode, and avoid tone mapping by the Windows DWM. This is because when you use Windows HDR and your application is using the Direct3D SetHDRMetaData call to specify color chromacity and luminance min/max values which are different than the values reported by the display in its EDID, then Windows will tone map the output of that application before it’s sending it to the display (this is why the VESA DisplayHDR will set these values to the ones reported by the display EDID when it wants to avoid this tone-mapping, as can be seen in the Game.cpp file in its source code). But whatever calibration you manage to create in this mode, it’s kind of useless when you use Windows HDR mode for applications (like games) that use SetHDRMetaData, to request gamut mapping or tone-mapping from Windows, as the gamut/tone-mapping will be done having as destination the gamut defined in the EDID.

    If you still want to try, use in madVR for MinCLL, MaxCLL, and MaxFALL the values in nits as reported by your display EDID. Grab Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) to download the EDID and check its Extension Blocks if it has a CTA-861 extension block. If it has, then select it and press Edit, check to see if there is a HDR Static Metadata block in here, and if there is select it and press Edit. Write down on a piece of paper the values you see here: min luminance (MinCLL), max frame-avg (MaxFALL), max luminance (MaxCLL). The values here are not the actual values in nits, we have to compute them, like this:

    MaxFALL in nits = 50 x 2^(MaxFALL / 32)
    MaxCLL in nits = 50 x 2^(MaxCLL / 32)
    MinCLL in nits = MaxCLL x [(MinCLL / 255)^2] / 100

    If the EDID does not have this information, then use the default values that Windows uses in this case (according to the same Game.cpp file in the VESA DisplayHDR source code):

    MaxFall in nits = 799
    MaxCLL in nits = 1499
    MinCLL in nits = 0.1

    You can also try to set the RGB and white point chromacity coordinates in madTPG to the values in the display EDID. CRU does not display them, use another tool like EnTech Monitor Asset Manager to see them.

    Second is a limitation in argyll itself. It will try to use color patches with RGB values that span the entire range possible. However, these RGB values will represent colors in the entire Bt2020 gamut, while the display gamut is more limited. So you need to craft a color patches sequence yourself that nicely captures the gamut limits of your display, and have most of the color patches inside the display gamut than outside, otherwise you will do a lot of measurements that are useless (outside the display gamut) and you are not going to have many useful (inside the display gamut) measurements.

    Third, argyll really needs stability of the display in order to be able to create a good profile. If the display drifts while making many HDR patches measurements, argyll will not give you good results. It has internal code to drop readings that it considers bad, but that’s not enough to counter the overall display drift.

    If you really want to try it out anyway, I recommend to just make your own patch set, in which you just cover the grays and the primaries, with most points towards the lower luminance values, and hope that works.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by stama.
    #36438

    stama
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    Forgot to say: gamma setting 2.2 on Sony TVs is when the Gamma slider is at “0”.

    Here is a direct link to the Sony guide to calibrating their TVs with Calman.

    #36439

    stama
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    I checked madTPG right now, and the custom chromacity and content luminance metadata values can only be set by an application that uses its network (and maybe its COM) API, they can’t be set from the madTPG user interface itself. There’s also MinMDL and MaxMDL values that can be set like this (this is what VESA Display HDR does):

    • MinMDL = 0
    • MaxMDL = MaxCLL
Viewing 15 posts - 211 through 225 (of 230 total)

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