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But when I compared them on a QD-OLED they both measure very differently. i1 Pro 2 is not accurate enough.
Where does SPD drift from each other on a QD-OLED (using i1pro2 at 3nm)?
i1Basic Pro 2 on Amazon
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Here’s my verification with the method I explained above in SDR Rec.709, 2.4 gamma.
Display is a Sony A95K
Probes I used are Jeti 1501 & i1 Display Pro
I verified in DisplayCal and HCFR. And it’s all spot on accurate.
Without doing the maths… it looks very close to D65 on CIE 2012 2 degree.
i1Display Pro on Amazon
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Where does SPD drift from each other on a QD-OLED (using i1pro2 at 3nm)?
I don’t know. I don’t have the i1 Pro 2 anymore to check.
Without doing the maths… it looks very close to D65 on CIE 2012 2 degree.
I’ll have to check later. QD-OLED adjusted to CIE 2012-2 compared to a D65 1931-2 CRT to see if they match WP.
But I do all calibrations in 1931-2. With a perceptual match. I would only use Alternate CMF’s for white point only if I were to use them.
When I tried 2012 for full calibration, it percetually looks different from 1931.
Mostly in blue. Blue takes on a purplish hue. When I compared two oleds. One adjusted to 1931, the other to 2012. Also I compared to a 1931 crt so I can have a good reference. 2012 is just too different for it to be usable.
Where does SPD drift from each other on a QD-OLED (using i1pro2 at 3nm)?
When I would switch i1 Pro 2 bewteen 10nm and hi res mode the switch barely made a difference. About 0.01 difference in measurment.
But the 3nm Jeti was significantly different in measurment. Enough at least to make a perceptible difference.
The biggest difference was in White Balance. Less so in Color. You can compensate for the less accuarate i1 Pro 2 by calibrating a display it does well on like a smaller gamut display. Then perceptually match to the QD display. To work around its limitations.
Where does SPD drift from each other on a QD-OLED (using i1pro2 at 3nm)?
When I would switch i1 Pro 2 bewteen 10nm and hi res mode the switch barely made a difference. About 0.01 difference in measurment.
But the 3nm Jeti was significantly different in measurment. Enough at least to make a perceptible difference.
The biggest difference was in White Balance. Less so in Color. You can compensate for the less accuarate i1 Pro 2 by calibrating a display it does well on like a smaller gamut display. Then perceptually match to the QD display. To work around its limitations.
But I’m talking about the technical source of error so it’s easy to identify “potential” misreadings without a jeti and aim for an slightly modified WP.
I mean:
-Do you remember if the “valleys” of SPD were taking more noise in i1Pro2? If bottom of the valley was raised up the integral may add some value that de balance R+G+B
-Do you remember if there was a misalignment on main wavelegth of the peaks vs the Jeti Specbos? This may hint some error in difraction grating + auto correction, or deteriorated ceramic tile. Testing with i1Diagnostics may bet a hint of an actual malfunctioning i1Pro2
-Do you remember if the left tail of blue peak fell deeper into short wavelengths, or at least in a less inclined downhill (“slow slope” in blu, on left side) than a QLED/WLED/GBLED/WLEDPFS?I mean, reading a QLED/RGBOLED SPD is an easy task because of the relatively slow slopes and thick/broad peaks. If an i1Pro2 was getting a misread it must be related to something like these 3 examples I wrote, not because SPD being difficult to read.
I mean, reading a QLED/RGBOLED SPD is an easy task because of the relatively slow slopes and thick/broad peaks. If an i1Pro2 was getting a misread it must be related to something like these 3 examples I wrote, not because SPD being difficult to read.
I don’t know or remember. I sold my i1 Pro 2 a while ago so I can’t verify any of the stuff you said except for 1.
I do know that the ceramic tile is not deterioted. I have comparisons of White Balance with both i1 Pro 2 & Jeti on a CRT. It was mostly to show the buyer that i1 Pro 2 still measures accurately.
I ended up purging alot of my photos when I was organizing the files on my phone so that’s all I could find.
Jeti measured x: 0.3119 / y: 0.3295
i1 Pro measured x: 0.3107 / y: 0.3286
Very close to each other. About +-0.015. Which is what jeti’s should measure within each other after recalibration. So my i1 Pro 2 measures as accurately as a refrence probe. So not an issue with ceramic tile.
The other questions I don’t know. And I don’t remember the exact difference in xy they measured on QD-OLED.
You know what. You might be able to find it. I uploaded data onto DisplayCal after I profiled my i1 Pro 2 to my i1D3. I did multiple uploads since I profiled it multiple times. You may be able to find it. I also uploaded Jeti files also. You’ll have to look for Sony A95K.
I named my ccmx files Sony A95K.
Sony BVM F170 is also my uploads.
https://colorimetercorrections.displaycal.net/?get&type=*&manufacturer_id=SNY&instrument=*&html=1
I’ve finally finished implementing and evaluating a method that uses the synthetic profile editor to combine white point changes in the target color space,st2084/rec.2020.
Many thanks for Vincent and EP98In conclusion, this method is preferable because it can eliminate correction with DisplayCal as much as possible, but it cannot be calibrated sufficiently with this alone.
I don’t like the unnatural discrepancy in grayscale, especially at low luminance.
In this state, it was absolutely unusable for grading, and 1D correction using HCFR was necessary.
As Vincent points out, this may be a limitation of the current DisplayCal/Argyll CMS.Of course, I used madTPG’s HDR mode for TPG, and the 4400 self-made measurement grid include 255 points of grayscale as accurately as DisplayCal can accept.
Nevertheless, the error was unacceptable for a only 100-point HCFR grayscale measurement.In this respect, the method using the compositing profile editor is a more complicated workflow, so it’s hard to say whether anyone can use it easily.
It may be easier to output the standard value of D65 once and calibrate the white point mismatch from 1D.For reference, I attach the results measured with the LUT output by DisplayCal.
The saturation map on the chromaticity diagram was quite satisfactory, but the grayscale is very strange.My goal is to make it easy for everyone to get the right HDR monitor display.
Of course, it can also be applied to SDR monitors (limited to sRGB), and if you want an accurate sRGB monitor, you should use this method.
In order to optimize the display of HDR monitors, it is best to first match the output to the ST2084/2020 standard values, and then apply a luminance map according to the monitor display capability.
In the past, some monitors had poor saturation maps, in which case you may need to set a suitable rendering intent in the 3D LUT Creator.Whether the SDR is relative or absolute must be defined as absolute.
I think it defined as standards.
A good creator doesn’t do irresponsible things like brighten or darken depending on his mood, for video in SDR he uses 100cd/m2 and for sRGB he uses 80cd/m2.
Of course, we know that many self-proclaimed creators who don’t know this are making stupid choices.
As a result, I am deeply dissatisfied with the disastrous situation that irresponsible color management based on the ICC has resulted.
*Surely, if there is no misunderstanding and it is operated perfectly, I think it is a very good system.Of course, this is also a problem in HDR, and as a result of grading with an HDR monitor that is not sufficiently calibrated, we often see glittering telops and unnatural images such as people’s shirts shining.
This is the fault of a stupid colorist.I think the problem with ICC is that we might think that setting the ICC means we can calibrate.
Unlike 3D LUT by DWM LUT, I doubt whether it is possible to calibrate saturation enough.
Of course, it may be enough on a sRGB, but in reality, I think it is extremely doubtful whether it is managed and operated properly on current wide gamut displays.
On this issue, Vincent, I think it’s very important to have someone like you who can give us the information to do the right thing.
I think SDR PC monitors should be calibrated exactly to sRGB (0.2-80cd/m2) or BT.709 (0.1-100cd/m2, gamma2.2 or 2.4).
Unfortunately, there are no further display criteria.
The current confusion is the negligence of the monitor and still image industry in not sufficiently responding and disseminating information to the ICC.With HDR, I think customers need to see it properly. It doesn’t have to be exact, but authors should have a calibrated monitor that can display it correctly.
I would like to devise and provide a method that is sufficiently inexpensive and easy to introduce.With the method I proposed this time, I succeeded to calibrate consumer monitor that supports a sufficient luminance range and a wide color gamut, in this case INNOCN’s 27M2V, etc., to same quality as a reference for HDR production.
Even when compared with the PA32UCX, which also applies white point correction with the latest ASUS ProArt calibration software 4, the display is almost the same, and I am proud that I was able to realize an HDR reference environment that required least thousands of USD ever, for only about 1000 USD.Where does SPD drift from each other on a QD-OLED (using i1pro2 at 3nm)?
I have a brand new i1 Pro 2 in hand. It still has the sticker to please remove before first use on it.
What files do you want me to upload so we can make comparisons between the Jeti and i1 Pro 2?
I also need to figure out how to install argyll drivers for i1 Pro 2 since displaycal is not recognizing the probe on latest Windows 11. And installing drivers is not possible with displaycal with latest argyll.
Windows is not letting install unsigned drivers so I’ll need to bypass that.
Create a CCSS correction with both devices. Then we’ll be able to compare main wavelegth error, noise error, resolution errors and all the things discussed previously
Create a CCSS correction with both devices. Then we’ll be able to compare main wavelegth error, noise error, resolution errors and all the things discussed previously
Here’s the CCSS files for the Jeti 1501 (Hi Res – 2nm), and i1 Pro 2 measured in both (10nm and 3.3 Hi Res Modes).
This was done on the Sony A95K QD-OLED.
So all devices are Close to Brand new.
My Jeti 1501 has Nist Calibration done in September 2022. And the i1 Pro 2 is brand new. I removed the sticker that says please remove before first use. It’s the ES-2000 revision E model, Manufactured Year 2017-08. Never opened or used till now.
I did all measurements at the exact same spot on the screen in a pitch black room, to avoid ambient light. And let the Displays warm up a bit. All in their Widest Native Gamut modes.
I’ll upload files for the QD-LCD later today. A bit lazy right now. But on the A95K OLED. Highest delta e was in White Balance less in color. i1 Pro 2 does relatively good. But I don’t consider it accurate enough for certain colors it’s approaching in the yellow with some colors when I compare the two.
This on the latest argyll drivers.
At 10nm is not able to capture the fast rising left slope in blue… that may interact with z-bar. Also a little in green & red too, like some misalligmnet caused by low resolution or difraction grating.
Since at 3nm it’s mostly solved I would say 10nm driver resolution issue althogh this tiny mismatch in the left is still there, like in red main wavelength.Did you choose that whitepoint for some visual match reasons?
At 10nm is not able to capture the fast rising left slope in blue… that may interact with z-bar.
I believe also that’s what’s causing the shift in White. There can be work arounds for White Point adjustment. Visually match to a display that can be accurately calibrated with a 10nm probe. The i1 Pro 2 and Jeti 1501 measure nearly identical on a CRT. So that can be a work around or any other display if all your limited to is just a i1 Pro 2.
But there is a difference in secondary colors between the two probes.
Since at 3nm it’s mostly solved I would say 10nm driver resolution issue although this tiny mismatch in the left is still there, like in red main wavelength.
This can be a problem if you want to use professional software. They don’t support hi res mode on the i1 Pro 2.
That small difference still causes a difference between the two probes in measurement comparisons. Whether it’s a visible difference I don’t know. I’ll need to create a Lut using both spectro’s and switch between both to see if I see a difference. I want to see for myself just how much DE actually applies in the real world.
I already did some comparisons on White Point and I can see a difference from a DE of 1.3 and under 0.5. It makes the under DE 2.3 standard useless to me. I try to aim under DE 0.5. For White Point. Which I usually get most of the time with a 3D LUT.
I haven’t done comparisons for colors other the White. So I’ll do that next. I believe I’ll get some more DE headroom for color other then White. But I’ll see for myself.
But even if the i1 Pro 2 Hi Res 3.3nm mode did mostly solve this, the Jeti 1501 will still be a better probe due to the fact that the quality control is tighter. There is less probe to probe variance on a Jeti then on a i1 Pro 2. On a Jeti it can be as much as a +- 0.015 difference. While on a i1 Pro 2 it can go as much as a +- 0.080 difference between probes. That is going to be noticeable.
Did you choose that whitepoint for some visual match reasons?
Yes, visually matched to a CRT, to give me a more neutral looking White. D65 on a QD-OLED looks to red.
I uploaded data for a QD-LCD. The monitor is a MSI MAG274QRF-QD.
DWM_LUT is now banned by the Escape from Tarkov devs. https://twitter.com/bstategames/status/1625154101351964672
Does novideo_srgb work differently? I guess it clamps LUT to the Nvidia drivers and not DWM but I’ve always preferred DWM_LUT because it doesn’t come with a performance loss.
