Gamut Display Error or Scam ?

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  • #29625

    Christopher
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    After installing the CCSS profile which you mentioned and recalibrating. it has improved as the following;

    98.2% Gamut Coverage for sRGB

    94.7% Gamut Coverage for Adobe RGB

    87.1% Gamut Coverage for DCI-P3

    Although is there any way to get this even closer to what the display can target which is; 100% for both sRGB and Adobe RGB and 98% for DCI-P3 ? Although DisplayCAL didn’t even give me a read out for Rec709 for it’s Gamut ?

    Also what colormeter correction must I use for Wacom Cintiq displays, specifically the 22HD and the Cintiq Pro line of displays ?

    What about Windows, can you get color correction in Windows which displays the full gamut which the display is set to; for example, if the display OSD is set to regular sRGB and the calibration as what I want to achieve does get the monitor to display the full 100% sRGB in my case, can I get Windows to show the full gamut of sRGB ?

    And is there any way to show what colors the monitor is clipping, for example; at this moment AdobeRGB is only showing on my display; 94.7% is it possible in Photoshop to show what colors are being clipped which is roughly 6% of the sRGB gamut ?

    #29626

    Vincent
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    87.1% Gamut Coverage for DCI-P3

    It seems that you are using a factory or HW cal limited gamut mode or messed up with OSD controls.

    CCSS plot showed very high P3 coverage.

    Also what colormeter correction must I use for Wacom Cintiq displays, specifically the 22HD and the Cintiq Pro line of displays ?

    IDNK, check community database.

    What about Windows, can you get color correction in Windows which displays the full gamut which the display is set to; for example, if the display OSD is set to regular sRGB and the calibration as what I want to achieve does get the monitor to display the full 100% sRGB in my case, can I get Windows to show the full gamut of sRGB ?

    You’ll need to use HW calibration (which software is very poor in Asus) to limit colorspace,

    or as an alternative use sRGB factory mode then calibrate white & grey in GPU like if display was a laptop or Mac with locked OSD controls.

    And is there any way to show what colors the monitor is clipping, for example; at this moment AdobeRGB is only showing on my display; 94.7% is it possible in Photoshop to show what colors are being clipped which is roughly 6% of the sRGB gamut ?

    Use photoshop softproofing to display icc (do not use preserve RGB colors). Depending on displayprofile TRC some dark patches may show as out of gamut, ignore them.

    Example: Image is a TIFF AdobeRGB, softproof to display ICC with relative colorimetric (“relative white” is the only way to do it). Then show out of gamut.

    #29632

    Christopher
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    I reset my monitor OSD and redid the calibration this time I got;

    99.6% sRGB Gamut Coverage

    97.2% Adobe RGB Gamut Coverage

    94.4% DCI-P3 Gamut Coverage

    I’m hoping this falls in line with what you are saying for high P3 coverage and is a result which is good ? Although there is no Rec709 result or Rec2020 ?

    or as an alternative use sRGB factory mode then calibrate white & grey in GPU like if display was a laptop or Mac with locked OSD controls.

    ?

    Use photoshop softproofing to display icc (do not use preserve RGB colors). Depending on displayprofile TRC some dark patches may show as out of gamut, ignore them.

    Example: Image is a TIFF AdobeRGB, softproof to display ICC with relative colorimetric (“relative white” is the only way to do it). Then show out of gamut.

    I should use soft proofing then load the ICC profile but turn off preserve RGB colors ?

    #29634

    Vincent
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    I reset my monitor OSD and redid the calibration this time I got;

    99.6% sRGB Gamut Coverage

    97.2% Adobe RGB Gamut Coverage

    94.4% DCI-P3 Gamut Coverage

    I’m hoping this falls in line with what you are saying for high P3 coverage and is a result which is good ? Although there is no Rec709 result or Rec2020 ?

    For other colorspaces you’ll need to learn how to use command line argyllcms iccgamut, & viewgam.

    or as an alternative use sRGB factory mode then calibrate white & grey in GPU like if display was a laptop or Mac with locked OSD controls.

    ?

    As stated above. Let GPU correct white point if using factory sRGB mode.

    Use photoshop softproofing to display icc (do not use preserve RGB colors). Depending on displayprofile TRC some dark patches may show as out of gamut, ignore them.

    Example: Image is a TIFF AdobeRGB, softproof to display ICC with relative colorimetric (“relative white” is the only way to do it). Then show out of gamut.

    I should use soft proofing then load the ICC profile but turn off preserve RGB colors ?

    No. Use softproof with that display profile (simulate like with a printer, how things look in that outout colorspace). By default the other setting should be off.

    #29638

    Christopher
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    I assume the 99.6% for sRGB the 97.2% for AdobeRGB and the 94.4% for DCI-P3 is the closest I will get to what the display will show for these gamut’s as It’s a few percentages off for AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 ?

    As stated above. Let GPU correct white point if using factory sRGB mode.

    What is this called, so I can look up on how to do this as to do color calibration for Windows ?

    Why use this CCSS file, why can’t DisplayCAL reach close to the target of the display without this file, does this file turn on some things for DisplayCAL so it can use the hardware calibrator and reach the closest for each gamut of the monitor ?

    #29639

    Christopher
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    I’m attempting to install the colormeter file for the Cintiq 22HD from the database, although when attempting to load the CCMX file, I get an error; oeminst: Warning K-10 & Wacom Tech Cintiq 22HD (specbos).ccmx has an unknown display technology set ?

    #29641

    Vincent
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    I assume the 99.6% for sRGB the 97.2% for AdobeRGB and the 94.4% for DCI-P3 is the closest I will get to what the display will show for these gamut’s as It’s a few percentages off for AdobeRGB and DCI-P3 ?

    Use DisplayCAL’s display profile info tool to see in 2D and 3D plots where your display falls short of coverage of each one.

    It’s in displaycal folder.

    As stated above. Let GPU correct white point if using factory sRGB mode.

    What is this called, so I can look up on how to do this as to do color calibration for Windows ?

    Use DisplayCAL, just ignore popup window asking to correct white point. What you cannot correct (becasue white and OSD controsl are locked).. DisplayCAL will do it in GPU since white is justa another grey. Better to correct it with OSD controls but if they are locked and target white is not too far away GPU can do it.

    Why use this CCSS file, why can’t DisplayCAL reach close to the target of the display without this file, does this file turn on some things for DisplayCAL so it can use the hardware calibrator and reach the closest for each gamut of the monitor ?

    Colorimeters are not perfect devices simulating exactly human vision modeled by CIE 1931 2 degree observer. Even most spectrophotometers cannot read spectral power distribution of modern displays properly (most of them are meant to be used in printer profiling).
    You’ll need a JETI specbos (several thousands dollars) to get this in one shot. With such budget you won’t have buy that Asus…

    i1d3 colorimeters provide a fast and distributable way to correct themselves with a sample of spectral power distribution of teh screen they are measuring (CCSS). Once you use proper CCSS for measured backlight on an i1d3 colorimeter, they are very accurate. Your previous readings where not real and all measured color coordinates were wrong too, including your previous calibrations without that CCSS (or other CCSS with specral data close to that one.)

    #29642

    Vincent
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    • Offline

    I’m attempting to install the colormeter file for the Cintiq 22HD from the database, although when attempting to load the CCMX file, I get an error; oeminst: Warning K-10 & Wacom Tech Cintiq 22HD (specbos).ccmx has an unknown display technology set ?

    As gerenal rule do not use CCMX if you did not make them. They were created for other colorimeter than yours. Not so portable.
    You’ll need an spectrophotometer to make them (starting 400-1200 euro cheaper ones, check if tehy are supported by ArgyllCMS)

    CCSS are portable & accurate if
    -CCSS data is for the same display type and was measured properly
    -colorimeter firmware data matches colorimeter actual behavior (which is OK in all units I checked)

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Vincent.
    #29644

    Christopher
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    Use DisplayCAL, just ignore popup window asking to correct white point. What you cannot correct (becasue white and OSD controsl are locked).. DisplayCAL will do it in GPU since white is justa another grey. Better to correct it with OSD controls but if they are locked and target white is not too far away GPU can do it.

    When calibrating with DisplayCAL, don’t I already do this ? You say it’s suppose to write to GPU so that Windows is calibrated atleast for either sRGB or AdobeRGB for the display.

    Colorimeters are not perfect devices simulating exactly human vision modeled by CIE 1931 2 degree observer. Even most spectrophotometers cannot read spectral power distribution of modern displays properly (most of them are meant to be used in printer profiling).
    You’ll need a JETI specbos (several thousands dollars) to get this in one shot. With such budget you won’t have buy that Asus…

    i1d3 colorimeters provide a fast and distributable way to correct themselves with a sample of spectral power distribution of teh screen they are measuring (CCSS). Once you use proper CCSS for measured backlight on an i1d3 colorimeter, they are very accurate. Your previous readings where not real and all measured color coordinates were wrong too, including your previous calibrations without that CCSS (or other CCSS with specral data close to that one.)

    The 99.6% for sRGB the 97.2% for AdobeRGB and the 94.4% for DCI-P3 is the most accurate I will get for this display for those gamuts.

    #29645

    Christopher
    Participant
    • Offline

    I’m attempting to install the colormeter file for the Cintiq 22HD from the database, although when attempting to load the CCMX file, I get an error; oeminst: Warning K-10 & Wacom Tech Cintiq 22HD (specbos).ccmx has an unknown display technology set ?

    As gerenal rule do not use CCMX if you did not make them. They were created for other colorimeter than yours. Not so portable.
    You’ll need an spectrophotometer to make them (starting 400-1200 euro cheaper ones, check if tehy are supported by ArgyllCMS)

    CCSS are portable & accurate if
    -CCSS data is for the same display type and was measured properly
    -colorimeter firmware data matches colorimeter actual behavior (which is OK in all units I checked)

    I can’t find a CCSS file for this Cintiq in the database ?

    #29646

    Vincent
    Participant
    • Offline

    Use DisplayCAL, just ignore popup window asking to correct white point. What you cannot correct (becasue white and OSD controsl are locked).. DisplayCAL will do it in GPU since white is justa another grey. Better to correct it with OSD controls but if they are locked and target white is not too far away GPU can do it.

    When calibrating with DisplayCAL, don’t I already do this ? You say it’s suppose to write to GPU so that Windows is calibrated atleast for either sRGB or AdobeRGB for the display.

    No. Displaycal (or i1Profiler or any other tool without access to internal HW calibration of display) only calibrates grey. Thats all, “greys”. Then makes a profile to capture after calibration behavior.
    If you move to sRGB OSD preset whitepoint may be off from your desired target (D65 for example), so if you want to correct white on that OSD mode, you’ll need a profile for that OSD mode different than the one you made at full gamut (a new DsiplaYCal calibration).
    When you swicth from one OSD mode to another you’ll need to change default profile in OS too, and maybe restart the colro managed application you were using

    #29647

    Vincent
    Participant
    • Offline

    I’m attempting to install the colormeter file for the Cintiq 22HD from the database, although when attempting to load the CCMX file, I get an error; oeminst: Warning K-10 & Wacom Tech Cintiq 22HD (specbos).ccmx has an unknown display technology set ?

    As gerenal rule do not use CCMX if you did not make them. They were created for other colorimeter than yours. Not so portable.
    You’ll need an spectrophotometer to make them (starting 400-1200 euro cheaper ones, check if tehy are supported by ArgyllCMS)

    CCSS are portable & accurate if
    -CCSS data is for the same display type and was measured properly
    -colorimeter firmware data matches colorimeter actual behavior (which is OK in all units I checked)

    I can’t find a CCSS file for this Cintiq in the database ?

    It seems that there is no one:

    https://colorimetercorrections.displaycal.net/?get&type=ccmx&manufacturer_id=WAC&display=Cintiq%2022HD&instrument=Klein%20K-10&html=1

    This database is made by community. Unfortunately the person that created those CCMX did not make the CCSS for other people, maybe he didn’t know.

    If Cintiq22 is a “SRGB only” display use generic “White LED family (LG Samsng)” . If it is a widegamut display IDNK.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Vincent.
    #29649

    Christopher
    Participant
    • Offline

    No. Displaycal (or i1Profiler or any other tool without access to internal HW calibration of display) only calibrates grey. Thats all, “greys”. Then makes a profile to capture after calibration behavior.
    If you move to sRGB OSD preset whitepoint may be off from your desired target (D65 for example), so if you want to correct white on that OSD mode, you’ll need a profile for that OSD mode different than the one you made at full gamut (a new DsiplaYCal calibration).
    When you swicth from one OSD mode to another you’ll need to change default profile in OS too, and maybe restart the colro managed application you were using

    When switching OSD modes, lets say from sRGB or AdobeRGB I have to change that profile in OS as well; this I understand. And that profile being the ICC file created by DisplayCAL.

    How do I make a profile for each OSD mode for Windows ?

    #29650

    Christopher
    Participant
    • Offline

    If Cintiq22 is a “SRGB only” display use generic “White LED family (LG Samsng)” . If it is a widegamut display IDNK.

    I couldn’t find; White LED Family (LG Samsung) instead I used, WLEDFamily_07Feb11. The results are only 87.9% Gamut coverage for sRGB and since this display can only do 72% for AdobeRGB, calibration is returning only 64.4% for AdobeRGB Gamut Coverage. I would like to get higher for AdobeRGB atleast 70% if possible ?

    #29652

    Vincent
    Participant
    • Offline

    No. Displaycal (or i1Profiler or any other tool without access to internal HW calibration of display) only calibrates grey. Thats all, “greys”. Then makes a profile to capture after calibration behavior.
    If you move to sRGB OSD preset whitepoint may be off from your desired target (D65 for example), so if you want to correct white on that OSD mode, you’ll need a profile for that OSD mode different than the one you made at full gamut (a new DsiplaYCal calibration).
    When you swicth from one OSD mode to another you’ll need to change default profile in OS too, and maybe restart the colro managed application you were using

    When switching OSD modes, lets say from sRGB or AdobeRGB I have to change that profile in OS as well; this I understand. And that profile being the ICC file created by DisplayCAL.

    How do I make a profile for each OSD mode for Windows ?

    Change OSD to mode A, Run DisplayCAL, calibrate.

    Change OSD to mode B, Run DisplayCAL, calibrate.

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