Windows 11 ColorManagement broken

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  • #33918

    String
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    Worth knowing – couldn’t see it mentioned in the notes (only colours for HDR screens).

    If only i could remember what actual defaults i should have set and where i could go back to normal then!

    #33919

    Omelette
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    I’m attaching a screenshot with the defaults (though they’re easy to spot since they have “System default” written on them). And yes, it’s weird that the changelog only mentions HDR screens. My screen does not support HDR, but this update fixed the issue anyways.

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Omelette.
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    #33927

    String
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    Cheers – So long ago since i set it i’d forgotten what it was.

    I’ll check it properly tomorrow.  I use multiple (very different) screens so having an assigned profile was a pain.

    #33928

    Titus
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    Thanks for the heads up! Can confirm that with the latest update (OS Build 22000.469) Irfanview and Chrome now properly switch color profiles, when windows are moved between different monitor, as they did in Windows 10.
    Amazed as well how long it took them to get around to fixing it -__-

    #33931

    Алексей Коробов
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    Do Irfan and Chrome really switch profiles when moving between screens? I haven’t seen this even on Mac with Photoshop. They will work with different calibration curves, of course (curves are applied by videocard, apllications don’t know what happens here). But all applications use the only profile they get during application start, till they will be closed. Exception is those ported from Linux (GIMP, Krita), here you have to set display profile explicitly. May be, something has changed?

    P.S. The problem with display profile loading order in Win11 had been already discussed in other theme, but off the topic. Glad to know that Win11 returned to multiple displays support. Actually, absolute majority of MS users still work in Win10, I don’t see serious reason to upgrade it now, but bugs and software incompliance are guaranteed.

    #33938

    String
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    Im still seeing some odd behaviour that might be DisplayCal related.

    Commonly i use a main desktop monitor in the day and laptop screen later on.

    Previously it auto set the correct profile for each screen.  Now its not, unplugging the main screen and the laptop is using the monitor profile and vice versa.

    I have set the colour management back to “system defaults”.

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    #33945

    Titus
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    Yes, that is how those apps work in Windows. But it is a semi-recent development. When color management was first added to Chrome a few years ago it behaved as you describe, you had to close the app and re-launch for it to switch color profiles. Now you can see it change the color profile dynamically as you move the open window from one display to the other. (The default windows photo app and many others now have this functionality too.) Other apps may be different though. I have some apps such as Clip Studio Paint that will only ever use the color profile of the primary display. Others still require you to re-launch the app. Irfanview you have to cycle to a different image and back for it to switch color profiles, which is fast enough to do with the mouse scroll wheel to not be too annoying.
    (And I only switched to Windows 11 early because I’m a PC enthusiast and have bad judgement lol.)

    #38229

    BrandonV
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    It doesn’t seem to be working for me on my new Windows 11 laptop, unfortunately. For example, if I profile an external monitor that I KNOW has a wide gamut and have profiled before using the same colorimeter, the external screen ends up having a much smaller gamut than it should.  In fact,  it has the same gamut that the laptop’s built-in screen has somehow! Furthermore, the laptop’s bult-in display is supposed to be wide gamut. I have a post that goes into more detail as well.

    #38234

    CJPN
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    Microsoft fixed multi-display colour management in the big January patch around this time last year.  Has been working perfectly on my end ever since.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by CJPN.
    #38237

    BrandonV
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    Have any idea why I might be experiencing the gamut of a monitor measured with the same colorimeter changing when hooked up to the W11 machine? Could it be something like the old gretag macbeth eye-one display I have is going bad?

    #38238

    CJPN
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    A couple of things spring to mind.

    First, via new new (as opposed to old-style control panel) System -> Display settings ensure that HDR is switched off.

    Second, while it is possible to select a colour profile from the same screen, I recommend using the old Color Management (searching via start menu should locate it) utility to set profiles, and ensure that “Use my settings for this device” is selected for both screens.

    #38251

    BrandonV
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    I think I have a little more of this figured out.

    1 ) I think the eye-one display I have is too old to be accurate now. It seems to be over sensitive in the green channel which seriously screws up the white point measurement, and consequently, gamut. That might explain the difference in the external monitor’s measured gamut compared to a profile made a little over a year ago.

    2 ) I generated a profile for the laptop’s gamut using the EDID data in displaycal and set that as the color profile. The native display now passes the P3 red image test (downloaded from here and viewed in windows photos https://webkit.org/blog-files/color-gamut/Webkit-logo-P3.png )

    3) I set MSI TrueColor to Custom -> Native mode, instead of the Display P3 mode. I think the so-called “Display P3 mode” just adjusts the white point to match D65 and boosts the saturation with some kind of hardware LUT that assumes sRGB encoding. I say this becase the reds in Display P3 mode just look wrong. Native mode produces the correct looking red.

    know the laptop native display has a hardware LUT built in, and I assume that MSI TrueColor switches between different ones. I think that combined with a faulty colorimeter have been the source of my headaches. I suppose the next step is to get a new colorimeter and profile the laptop to create a more precise color profile. I haven’t plugged in my external monitor yet again but I think and hope I at least have things at a good point.

    #38252

    CJPN
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    You make an excellent point there.  Not that I’m massively experienced with colour management across a wide variety of hardware, but both of the monitors I use daily have various “sRGB/P3/HDR/Office/Gaming” modes, all of which not only appear to attempt to “fake” high-gamut based on sRGB input, but also instantly overwrite the manual RGB balance settings used while setting the white point during initial stages of DisplayCal calibration.  All of them gimmicks, at least at the prosumer level of these displays.

    It does, however, seem strange for your eye-one display to have suddenly deviated so far from spec in such a short time, so, yes. there may be another factor yet to be uncovered.

    #38255

    atagunov
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    gretag macbeth eye-one display I have is going bad?

    If that is the same eye-one I have in mind then sadly it might indeed be time to retire it. The device is really old and I read it is using organic color filters which do deteriorate with time.

    I believe most people are using i1 Display Pro now of various vintages. For some reason they are also called i1d3. The filters on them are supposed to be non-organic and stable over time. The spectral sensitivity has supposedly been measured at factory and recorded into the device’s ROM. Provided you use EDR / CCSS (aka “spectral correction”) correctly selected for the backlight on you display there is hope to achieve reasonable accuracy with these devices. I think this is the best we can buy without spending $6k-$12k.

    I read somewhere the “oem” versions might be more suitable than “retail”, e.g. “oem” versions work in a larger number of non-x-rite software packges compared to “retail” ones. I’d hope to find an oem i1d3 under $150-£150 but that’s me I’m okay with “new” on ebay etc. No reason to choose “pro” over non-pro.

    The device seems to have been rebraded “Calibrite” recently, but my bet would be on an unused OEM i1d3 non-retail (oem) from ebay.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by atagunov.

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    #38260

    CJPN
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    It might be worth capturing the output of the eye-one versus a known-good display in order to determine precisely how it has deteriorated and departed from spec.

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