Opinions of Spyder 5 WLED Mode Versus Generic Mode

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  • #3722

    Michael
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    I have a Spyder 5 colorimeter. If I calibrate my LG 27UD68 UHD WLED backlit monitor with the included Datacolor software, whites have a greenish tint. If I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument Mode to LCD (Generic), I get the exact same results.

    If, however, I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument MOde to “White LED”, whites look natural to me.

    I paid good money for the Datacolor Pro software, so I brought this issue up with them. They had me send them pictures and calibration reports. They reported back to me, claiming that my monitor was calibrated correctly, despite the greenish tint on whites, and basically told me that I just didn’t know what a calibrated monitor was supposed to look like!

    I’ve been trying to understand all this for days, and I can’t wrap my head around it. I thought ‘calibrated’ meant ‘calibrated’. Either colors are correct, or they aren’t – so why are there different modes for my colorimeter? And if I get dramatically different results from different modes, how can more than one result be right? Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration??? There is only one way to tune a piano! It’s either in tune or it isn’t.

    Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated. What mode should I be using? And why is that mode correct, and the others not??? And so on and so on…

    #3723

    S Simeonov
    Participant
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    I have a Spyder 5 colorimeter. If I calibrate my LG 27UD68 UHD WLED backlit monitor with the included Datacolor software, whites have a greenish tint. If I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument Mode to LCD (Generic), I get the exact same results.

    If, however, I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument MOde to “White LED”, whites look natural to me.

    I paid good money for the Datacolor Pro software, so I brought this issue up with them. They had me send them pictures and calibration reports. They reported back to me, claiming that my monitor was calibrated correctly, despite the greenish tint on whites, and basically told me that I just didn’t know what a calibrated monitor was supposed to look like!

    I’ve been trying to understand all this for days, and I can’t wrap my head around it. I thought ‘calibrated’ meant ‘calibrated’. Either colors are correct, or they aren’t – so why are there different modes for my colorimeter? And if I get dramatically different results from different modes, how can more than one result be right? Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration??? There is only one way to tune a piano! It’s either in tune or it isn’t.

    Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated. What mode should I be using? And why is that mode correct, and the others not??? And so on and so on…

    If your monitor is White LED, you should use that mode, trust me I have a white led monitor and I’ve tried a lot of different corrections and etc., but the best result is using your panel’s type White LED correction or option, mode 🙂

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by S Simeonov.
    #3725

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    Hi,

    If, however, I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument mode to “White LED”, whites look natural to me.

    Yes, and that is presumably the correct mode for your monitor (almost all non-wide-gamut models available today use white LED backlighting). The DataColor software should offer the same selection somewhere though, because that mode is not something provided by DisplayCAL, but by the Spyder5 itself. If I recall correctly, in the DataColor software it is incorporated into the display type selection.

    Either colors are correct, or they aren’t

    It’s not that simple unfortunately. All tristimulus colorimeters are based around the assumption of a standardized observer, i.e. the average human vision. The closer the instrument’s filter response is to the standardized observer, the better it’ll work with different display technologies without additional corrections. All colorimeters can do a better job though when the display technology is known, and so this is an important selection.

    Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration?

    Yes, and that is to make an appropriate choice in regards to the display’s panel and backlighting technology, via either the measurement mode (i.e. for the Spyder5) or a colorimeter correction.

    What mode should I be using?

    The one that is correct for your display technology and backlighting type, in your case almost certainly “White LED”.

    #3726

    Michael
    Participant
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    Hi,

    If, however, I calibrate with DisplayCAL by setting the Instrument mode to “White LED”, whites look natural to me.

    Yes, and that is presumably the correct mode for your monitor (almost all non-wide-gamut models available today use white LED backlighting). The DataColor software should offer the same selection somewhere though, because that mode is not something provided by DisplayCAL, but by the Spyder5 itself. If I recall correctly, in the DataColor software it is incorporated into the display type selection.

    Either colors are correct, or they aren’t

    It’s not that simple unfortunately. All tristimulus colorimeters are based around the assumption of a standardized observer, i.e. the average human vision. The closer the instrument’s filter response is to the standardized observer, the better it’ll work with different display technologies without additional corrections. All colorimeters can do a better job though when the display technology is known, and so this is an important selection.

    Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration?

    Yes, and that is to make an appropriate choice in regards to the display’s panel and backlighting technology, via either the measurement mode (i.e. for the Spyder5) or a colorimeter correction.

    What mode should I be using?

    The one that is correct for your display technology and backlighting type, in your case almost certainly “White LED”.

    Thanks, Florian.   There isn’t a ‘Display Type’ selection in the latest version of the Datacolor software, and that’s the problem.  You’re offered a menu from which you select the brand of your monitor, then you simply type in the model number – there’s is no drop-down list of models from which to choose.   The user is given no indication that the software recognizes that model number, nor that it is making any compensations or settings changes based on that model number.

    I’ve argued with Datacolor, positing that their software isn’t recognizing my model number, and is, therefore, calibrating it as a generic display instead of a WLED display, but they say I’m wrong.  For me, the proof that I’m right is that their software is calibrating my monitor exactly like DisplayCAL does when I set DisplayCAL’s Instrument Mode to “LCD (Generic).

    I’ve wasted my money with Datacolor by upgrading from their Express software to their Pro software, thinking that doing so would solve my problem, which it obviously didn’t.

    I hope you intend on staying around and keeping DisplayCAL up to date for years to come, as your software is the only thing that makes my Spyder 5 do what it is supposed to do – and thank you for that!

    #3739

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    I hope you intend on staying around and keeping DisplayCAL up to date for years to come

    DisplayCAL has been around almost eight years, I have no intentions of stopping.

    as your software is the only thing that makes my Spyder 5 do what it is supposed to do

    Well, technically it’s the underlying system, Argyll CMS – without that, there’s not much DisplayCAL can do.

    #3741

    Michael
    Participant
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    I hope you intend on staying around and keeping DisplayCAL up to date for years to come

    DisplayCAL has been around almost eight years, I have no intentions of stopping.

    as your software is the only thing that makes my Spyder 5 do what it is supposed to do

    Well, technically it’s the underlying system, Argyll CMS – without that, there’s not much DisplayCAL can do.

    Understood, but without DisplayCAL, Argyll is unusable…

    #3753

    Euri Pinhollow
    Participant
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    I’ve been trying to understand all this for days, and I can’t wrap my head around it. I thought ‘calibrated’ meant ‘calibrated’. Either colors are correct, or they aren’t – so why are there different modes for my colorimeter? And if I get dramatically different results from different modes, how can more than one result be right? Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration???

    You are correct in that there is only one correct rendering with ‘absolute’ intent.

    However, as Florian said, it is not possible to obtain that rendering with tristimulus colorimeters as the task of satisfying Luther-Maxwell criterion is too complex.

    You will get much more expectable results with spectrophotometers – like ColorMunki Photo – and they need no specific mode for different technologies, even upcoming ones.

    I think that you should read the software manual and advertisements to see what it promises you and make Datacolor return you the money.

    ColorMunki Photo on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #3755

    Michael
    Participant
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    I’ve been trying to understand all this for days, and I can’t wrap my head around it. I thought ‘calibrated’ meant ‘calibrated’. Either colors are correct, or they aren’t – so why are there different modes for my colorimeter? And if I get dramatically different results from different modes, how can more than one result be right? Shouldn’t there be only one ‘correct’ calibration???

    You are correct in that there is only one correct rendering with ‘absolute’ intent.

    However, as Florian said, it is not possible to obtain that rendering with tristimulus colorimeters as the task of satisfying Luther-Maxwell criterion is too complex.

    You will get much more expectable results with spectrophotometers – like ColorMunki Photo – and they need no specific mode for different technologies, even upcoming ones.

    I think that you should read the software manual and advertisements to see what it promises you and make Datacolor return you the money.

    I paid $125 for the colorimeter and Express software.  I can live with that for just the colorimeter.  However, I paid $45 to upgrade to the Pro software, which did not resolve the problem, and I am asking for that money back.

    The Spyder 4 software allowed the user to select WLED instrument mode.  They took that out of the Spyder 5 software, opting instead to have the user manually type in the monitor model number.  From that monitor model number, the software is supposed to determine the type of backlight in use.  But, the software gives the user no indication that it even recognizes the monitor model, nor does it give any indication that it knows the type of backlight it uses.  In my case, I believe the software is failing to recognize my monitor, and is, therefore, calibrating it in “Generic LCD” mode.

    I’m going to continue to use DisplayCAL, and hope I get the $45 back that I wasted on the Datacolor Pro software.  I cannot afford a spectrophotometer…

    #7181

    Hendra Christian
    Participant
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    Hi,

    Bumped into your thread while looking for reason why my display is reddish after color calibration.

    The screen is now reddish after calibration and I’m not sure if this is suppose to be how it look like. I can’t achieve natural white in this screen after this calibration.

    I’m using Spyder3Elite for the calibration on my LG 27UD68-W.

    Could you share your Spyder5 calibrated .icm profile? I attached mine in case you want to also compare.

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    #7183

    Michael
    Participant
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    Hi,

    Bumped into your thread while looking for reason why my display is reddish after color calibration.

    The screen is now reddish after calibration and I’m not sure if this is suppose to be how it look like. I can’t achieve natural white in this screen after this calibration.

    I’m using Spyder3Elite for the calibration on my LG 27UD68-W.

    Could you share your Spyder5 calibrated .icm profile? I attached mine in case you want to also compare.

    Hi Hendra,

    I gave up on the Spyder, and went to an i1Display Pro, which is a much faster device – and finally gave up altogether, and returned both for a refund.

    Both colorimeters yielded a greenish tine that I never could get rid of, unless I accepted the native white temperature of the monitor during calibration, and once I did that, calibrating made virtually no difference.  The native white temperature of the 27UD68 measured at about 7,000°, but frankly, I don’t think either colorimeter worked very well, regarding white temp.

    As it turns out, the 27UD68 is calibrated so well from the factory that I felt a colorimeter was a waste of time and money.  I now run the monitor native, except for lowering the constant from 70 to 68.  At 70, the contrast overdrives whites, and gives them a greenish tint.  I don’t use an .icm at all anymore, and I’ve very pleased with this monitor.  My recommendation – unless you are just calibrating for the fun of it, save your time and money, and run the monitor native.  If you do want to calibrate, instead of setting the white temperature to 6500° during calibration, try setting it to the native temperature of the monitor.  That might get rid of that red tint.

    I’d be happy to share a .icm file with you, but obviously, I don’t have one.

    Good luck!!!

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Michael.

    i1Display Pro on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #7185

    Hendra Christian
    Participant
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    Sorry if the question is dumb/amateurish cause I’m very new to color calibrating monitor, but isn’t all monitor loading from color profile (.icm) files in Windows 10 (Start Menu > type “Color Management”)?

    I don’t understand why you said you don’t use .icm files anymore. Is it even an option?

    I do want to reset to my factory calibration for the monitor, but it seems I’ve messed up the default .icm file. So I’m not sure how to reset that to default.

    Note: The .icm file I mentioned is the one from C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\

    #7186

    Michael
    Participant
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    Sorry if the question is dumb/amateurish cause I’m very new to color calibrating monitor, but isn’t all monitor loading from color profile (.icm) files in Windows 10 (Start Menu > type “Color Management”)?

    I don’t understand why you said you don’t use .icm files anymore. Is it even an option?

    I do want to reset to my factory calibration for the monitor, but it seems I’ve messed up the default .icm file. So I’m not sure how to reset that to default.

    Note: The .icm file I mentioned is the one from C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\

    No such thing as a dumb question.  🙂  All you have to do is turn off Color Calibration.  Just go to Color Calibration, to the Advanced tab, and open “Change System Defaults” at the bottom.  Once there, go to the Advanced tab, and uncheck “Use Windows Display Calibration”.  Once you do that, Windows ignores the .icm files.

    #7193

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    Once you do that, Windows ignores the .icm files.

    Not quite true. After you’ve done what you described, you also should disable “use my settings for this device” for every display, or assign sRGB to the display. In the few color managed apps that will use the display profile, this will effectively result in a null transform for sRGB imagery.

    #7195

    Michael
    Participant
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    Once you do that, Windows ignores the .icm files.

    Not quite true. After you’ve done what you described, you also should disable “use my settings for this device” for every display, or assign sRGB to the display. In the few color managed apps that will use the display profile, this will effectively result in a null transform for sRGB imagery.

    Thanks for the clarification, Florian!

    #7210

    Hendra Christian
    Participant
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    Thanks for the info.

    I’ve been switching before and after calibration via spyder software to see which I’m more comfortable with. Still haven’t made decision on that but then it comes to me; what really is color accurate? When I’m doing design work for the web, as long as it’s just for the screen and not for cinema or printed (which also depend on the printer color calibration profile), then I can be as accurate as I want on my perfectly calibrated display but it all depends on the consumer display color profile, be it PC, Mac, Monitor, Mobile Phone, etc, which most of them aren’t calibrated.

    What do you guys use a perfect color accurate display for?

    PS: I attached some screenshot of before and after “use my setting”. Change system default > Use windows display calibration is unchecked. I tried taking photos of the screen to show the reddish cast with my phone but the result is almost indistinguishable so I don’t attach that.

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