Calibrating Monitor Questions

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  • #34551

    anaheimDavid
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    My questions may be general enough that anyone could answer, but just in case, I have an Asus pa279cv monitor and an iDisplayProPlus. I mostly need to calibrate for video work. Resolve, Adboe, etc.

    The monitor has different modes built into the display itself, Standard, Rec 709, sRGB, etc. If I’m looking to calibrate for broadcast rec 709, should I select the Rec 709 mode on the monitor, or leave it in standard and use DisplayCal to do that?      I ask because I’ve had conflicting information in the past. I’ve heard that the best way to maximize contrast and have result is to leave the monitor in Standard mode and let Displaycal do the calibration like that. But I also had an issue with an old Dell u2410 where I did that and found out later that the monitor was over saturated and contrasty and I was getting washed out results in my grades. Someone told me that Displaycal doesn’t actually limit the color values/gamma and I’d have to set that in the monitor. The Rec709 mode, out of the box, doesn’t look as good in my environment as the standard mode does. Just wondering what would give me the most accurate results.

    Also, I feel like most colorists always recommend calibrating and using a rec709 color space. But most of my work ends up on the web or social media, should I grade and use an srgb color space instead? Or would sticking with rec709 make sense.

    Any other advice for calibrating this monitor would be helpful. I appreciate it.

    Thank you

    #34552

    MW
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    You definitely want to expose the full gamut of the monitor, it makes whitepoint readings more accurate when used with a suitable correction. You still need to make the software aware of your profile, it’s the same for DisplcaCal, Calman and X-rite profiler. Use verification report to check the quality of your profile and post it here if you need help interpreting it.

    #34553

    anaheimDavid
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    Thank you, I appreciate the response. Can I ask how I properly make the software aware? Because as I mentioned, I had a Dell u2410, which had a wide gamut. And I asked questions and followed all the suggested steps to properly calibrate it. And still it had too much contrast and saturation. It’s like it had the correct colors and just displayed beyond it. I will run a calibration later and post my results, just wasn’t sure if anyone knew how to make Displaycal limit the color range in the way you described, because I don’t seem to understand that process.

    Thank you

    #34556

    MW
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    Can I ask how I properly make the software aware?

    If the software is a ICC aware following the steps in DisplayCal is enough. All software isn’t, including the windows desktop. If that bothers you there’s tools like dwm_lut and novideo_srgb that applies your profile system wide.

    #34557

    anaheimDavid
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    My issue is that I work for a small company and have to use Premiere Pro and After Effects a lot as well and don’t always have time for Resolve. I don’t know if there’s been improvements in Premiere over the years, but I remember things looking terrible in Premiere and heard they do not look at ICC profiles, though Photoshop did.             Do you think those tools are worth it?  Do they introduce other issues to Windows? Will ICC aware programs be doubling up on the corrections? It’s a work computer so I just want to be careful before experimenting with stuff.

    We also have Macs at the studio which I plan to calibrate as well, Mac Minis with connected monitors and iMacs as well. Are Apple computers fully ICC aware? Or would it be the same issue?

    I want to get as much color accuracy in Resolve, Premiere and After Effects. If you have any general advice on accomplishing that, I’d appreciate it.

    Thank you

    #34558

    dogelition
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    Do you think those tools are worth it?

    As the guy who made them, I’d say yes.

    Do they introduce other issues to Windows? Will ICC aware programs be doubling up on the corrections?

    Quick rundown:
    – Both tools are intended to be used instead of a color managed ICC workflow, so you’d want to disable color management, as those corrections would indeed be doubled up on otherwise.
    – dwm_lut will give you the highest possible color accuracy in everything except exclusive fullscreen at the cost of higher GPU utilization. It works with any recent version of Windows.
    – novideo_srgb uses undocumented NVIDIA GPU functionality to apply a simple color transform to everything. It won’t be as accurate unless your monitor is extremely well-behaved, but other than that it has no caveats.

    I want to get as much color accuracy in Resolve, Premiere and After Effects. If you have any general advice on accomplishing that, I’d appreciate it.

    Use dwm_lut.

    #34562

    anaheimDavid
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    Thank you for the input. You said that dwm_lut does not work as well in fullscreen? Just wanted to clarify what that means. Also, how much higher is the GPU utilization. I have a 3080ti, but I do a lot of heavy FX and color work that uses my gpu.

    Also, if anyone knows about other methods for PC or best practices for Mac. I appreciate it.

    I try to google this stuff and learn, but it’s so hard to find the exact answers I’m looking for. Thank you for your help.

    #34566

    anaheimDavid
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    Also, how much less acurate is novideo_srgb? This is for general studio use, so it doesn’t have to be absolutely critically perfect, but I want it to be close enough to trust the results. We are building a color suite in which I am looking for critical results, but we got a blakcmagic decklink and plan to hardware calibrate those ones.

    #34567

    Richard Downing
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    To the OP, it seems like you are getting good advice from the 2 posters so far. We are more and more exposed to this kind of dilemma now that just about even every display these days is wide gamut. I’m using the CC suite and Resolve regularly and Autodesk Flame less regularly. My preference is to use a GUI display that can emulate whatever colour space and transfer function you’re working to, with minimum intervention at the workstation. This kind of functionality is provided by some models of EIZO, for example. In my own case I use a 27″ Dell which provides for 2 “CAL” modes which can be set and profiled to whatever colour space and transfer function you need. If your ASUS display has something similar then I’d advise to do it that way.

    There are many video tools out there, particularly under Windows & Linux that will not manage the display colour management and will leave you with an oversaturated result in the viewports on a wide gamut display. You will run into this problem with Resolve but Adobe appears to have addressed the issue in Premiere with a preference setting for it.

    If the ASUS forces you to just pre-select a colour mode without any means of tweaking the white point then I’m inclined to agree with the 1st reply which casts doubt on the precision of the final result. If I were in your position I’d certainly look at that scenario to see how close the factory calibration is but, of course, you’re in the usual problem if the white point is heavily corrected in the ICC profile because this correction might not be respected by all programs.

    In reply to your question about the relative merits of Windows versus Mac, I’m in no doubt that under MacOS this situation is handled much better (for example, Resolve will handle display colour management only on MacOS) but it’s not a Utopia. Messaging services, for one thing, might not respect the wide gamut display. LINE is a culprit here.

    Lastly, for your intended deliverable you should probably be working in sRGB, although this assumes that you are not using a broadcast monitor. Watching sRGB stuff on a Rec709 or Rec1886 monitor will not be accurate.

    There seems to be a notable lack of colour management at the delivery end. I’ve seen my own stuff very oversaturated on public LED displays around town.

    #34570

    dogelition
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    Also, how much less acurate is novideo_srgb?

    Depends entirely on the monitor. You should try both options and verify the accuracy in DisplayCAL  (with “Use simulation profile as display profile” enabled for no color management) and see how they compare.

    Also, how much higher is the GPU utilization.

    I don’t have any exact numbers and I don’t know if you’ll even see a significant performance impact for your use. If it helps: The GPU utilization is mainly related to memory bandwidth and not compute, as the expensive part is just copying pixels around in memory to be able to apply the 3D LUT.

    #35471

    anaheimDavid
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    I have finally gotten around to calibrating some of the other monitors at the studio. I tried to implement DWM_LUT on the PC’s. Visually I don’t have much complaints. For some reason the white point seems a tad bit warm, but my phone might be on the blue side, so that may affect it, because the blue measurement is okay. I wanted to run my process by you and make sure I’m doing things okay, because I did a measurement report with DisplayCal afterwards and didn’t get the best results. Specifically the Reds were all off.

    First, I selected the Video (D65 Rec 1886) setting in displaycal. I adjusted my monitors rgb gain controls to hit the target whitepoint. I adjusted brightness to 250cdm (It’s a very bright office). I ran displaycal and got a profile, then I created a 3DLut from that profile. I used Rec709/1886 .cube file with a full range rgb 0-255 for my lut, 65x65x65.

    I did not install the profile with Displaycal, and I unchecked Load Calibration from current display, so it wouldn’t load anything. Then, I open DWM_LUT and loaded the lut into SDR section for my monitor. The color seemed fine, a bit warm as I said, but I know it’s normal to find a change in whitepoint odd at first.

    But I went back into Displaycal and ran a verification report. I ran it twice, both times I did the large testchart, and Sim profile Rec709 BT709, and I checked Use simulation profile as display profile.  The first time I left the Device Link Profile checked on, and got this result:  file:///D:/Monitor%20LUTs/Measurement%20Report%203.8.9.3%20%E2%80%94%20ASUS%20PA279%[email protected]%200,%200,%203840×2160%20%E2%80%94%202022-05-24%2012-34.html

    The second time I unchecked the device link profile and got this result:  file:///D:/Monitor%20LUTs/Measurement%20Report%203.8.9.3%20%E2%80%94%20ASUS%20PA279%[email protected]%200,%200,%203840×2160%20%E2%80%94%202022-05-24%2013-07.html

    Neither is a great result. Not sure if I’m doing something wrong in the implementation? Do I need to load the profile from displaycal? Is there a step I’m doing wrong? Any advice for getting me to better results?

    Thank you
    David

    #35472

    anaheimDavid
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    I’m on Windows 10 with an Asus PA279CV if that helps. Using the newest iDisplay Pro Plus.

    #35474

    Vincent
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    Local paths…we cannot see them. Attach files if you want to sahre something.

    #35476

    anaheimDavid
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    Sorry, I didn’t think about that, I’ve attached the two reports.

    Also, is there a way to check my colorimeter accuracy? I calibrated 8 monitors today, all different types, and each and every one had a 6800k whitepoint with the factory settings. They all seemed to feel better before, they matched phones and laptops better, it would be weird for them to all be off by 300 exactly at 6800 right? Or is 6800 common for manufacturers. The only other thing I can think of is that my colorimeter isn’t behaving correctly.

    thank you

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    #35481

    Vincent
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    Missing colorimeter correction, hence all measured values will be off by an unpredictable amount unless we can dump your i1d3 firmware.
    i1d3 colorimeter is meant to be used with spectral corrections (CCSS/EDR files),  a sample of display type spectral power distribution emited by backlight. This way software can auto correct raw measurement.

    Display looks sRGB type, so use White LED correction bundled in Xrite & DisplayCAL: WLEDFamily_07Feb11
    If you do not have them, import colorimeter corrections from Tools menu, choose i1Profiler.

    Once proper correction is loaded you would test is accuracy against a true reference device, like a JETI or colorimetry research but these are very expensive. As a cheaper solution you can try to compera with an Xrite spectrophotometer @ 3nm (high res mode) with DisplayCAL…. but these are not reference spectros and may have troubles with spectral power distributions with narrow peaks like PFS phosphor LEDs.

    99% i1d3 should work without issue if you choose a CCSS/EDR spectral correction matching backlight.

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