white point calibration on different displays

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  • #35587

    youngsinatra
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    Problem: I have three different displays and the white point seems to be not matching after calibration.

    Hardware:

    • Spyder X
    • MacBook Pro 16″ 2019
    • two AOC Q27P1

    My use case:

    I know the two external monitors are crappy and won’t do any good for photo editing. I have had access to a EIZO CS2740 and know what the difference makes. My main goal is to get my somewhat ok internal MacBook Pro display to have an accurate representation of colours. I am a hobby photographer and I know money can buy you better equipment but I am limited in my budget. The two external monitors are used ONLY for work. This means a lot of black text on white background. I simply want them to be similar to my internal monitor in terms of white point and have somewhat of an accurate color representation as it just annoys me otherwise (mainly the different white I see).

    What have I done:

    I tried to calibrate the screens with the default settings of DIsplayCal but came to the conclusion that I need to dive more into colours in general to get this right. So I searched on the internet and this forum. After that I chose my settings according to my screenshots.  (I selected WLED for the MacBook screen)

    The results are good in the terms of color accuracy, at least that’s what Display cal tells me in the measurement report (also attached). But the white point is just off visually.

    So I dove a bit deeper and found several forum posts here that discuss the white point. It is clear to me that a CCT of 6500K is a line and can be mangenta or cyan. But D65 should just be a point from my understanding. I read the paper by Andrew Rotney and got his book and read the chapters that seemed relevant to me.

    I still don’t understand why one screen is more magenta then the other one. Does it have to do with some of the hardware? Is the Macbook screen going to be the more accurate one? Or did I do something wrong? Is there a way to get my screens more equal white points? but why can’t this be done by measuring as Daylite 6500K should be a point, right?

    I am no expert by any means and I am learning this just now. thanks for any help.

    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by youngsinatra.
    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by youngsinatra.
    • This topic was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by youngsinatra.
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    #35595

    Vincent
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    Spydex X uses a set of fixed uncustomized matrix corrections bundled in device, hence it is not accurate, only for the few samples covered by factory correction.
    If you had an i1d3 you can get a CCSS correction for each display from community.
    Your SpyderX can only be corrected by using an spectrophotometer on your screens for your spyderX.  SpyderX is a huge improvement over older Spyders but it still lacks of filter spectral sensivities stored in firmware, so it cannot be corrected with shared (online) spectral power distributions of displays (Xrite’s i1d3 can be corrected this way)

    Anyway… this is what you have (an innacurate SpyderX) so let’s try to get the best of it

    Closest (innacurate) correction for P3 macbook should be the one you chose: LCD PFS Phosphor WLED, RGB LED
    That Q27P1 looks like sRGB screen, is it? => White LED correction (not PFS Phosphor WLED)

    Use them on your screen to get a numeric match for D65 on each one.

    Given the limitations of your measurement device choose the white that looks whitier. Use that screen  as reference. For the other screens choose visual white point editor and try to match reference screen visually using app controls or RGB gains (in the AOC displays). That’s all. Most innacuracies of your SpyderX will show as white point error, primaries error should be low, get a visual match for white, calibrate & profile and live with it.
    Photoshop or other apps won’t care if measured white for that visually matched reference white is not D65, image to screen rendering intent is always relative to white point (so a D50 ProphotoRGB 255 white canvas will render as 255 white in your screen, whatever whitepoint you choose for that screen).

    If you make LUT3D for Resolve or other tools remember to DO NOT USE abs colorimetric intent on screens where you matched visually white point, otherwhise LUT3D will undo that visually matched white. Use a relative whitepoint rendering intent on those screens.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Vincent.
    #35675

    youngsinatra
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    First of all thank you for your super fast response! I didn’t have time to answer until now and didn’t expect such a fast response.

    From what I understand the Spyder X just reaches its limitations here. I bought it recently so I still have the option to return it. So if you tell me now that buying a X-rite device fixes all these problems, I would think about spending the additional 50-150€ for the Xrite.

    You mention the i1d3 which seems to be out of production. What I can find is the Calibrate ColorChecker Display which says “powered by X-rite” and comes in the variants Pro and Plus as well. Is this the same product and does it have the ability to get a CCSS correction? Would any of these solve my problem? I am just not down to do this manually as that is the reason I spent money on a device. To me it seems like the Plus gives me measurements up to 2000cd/m^2 and the Pro has a measurement of the surrounding Light (wich I think is not necessary for me?) and 5 times the measuring speed (whatever that means…). So I think I would be good with the Display variant if it gives me the option for CCSS correction.

    Also where can I find the CCSS correction? I would like to check if the community have my displays before I would buy the other device.

    Thank you for your help!

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 10 hours ago by youngsinatra. Reason: adding specification
    #35677

    youngsinatra
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    Ok I think I found the CCSS database on the domain of displaycal.net

    I can find my laptop (MacBook Pro 16,1) and it says it has the CCSS for i Pro 2. Is that the “Calibrite ColorChecker Display Pro”?

    Could I also use it with the non pro variant?

    #35678

    Vincent
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    You mention the i1d3 which seems to be out of production. What I can find is the Calibrate ColorChecker Display which says “powered by X-rite” and comes in the variants Pro and Plus as well. Is this the same product and does it have the ability to get a CCSS correction?

    Yes, all of them are i1d3.

    Would any of these solve my problem?

    Maybe, there are issues not related to device but to human population variation vs std observer. There are also some firmware innacuracies given the reduced prive of all these i1d3, but should be very small.
    Read these forum, it havs been explained in vseveral places & threads.

    I am just not down to do this manually as that is the reason I spent money on a device.

    Read above, it may be you.

    To me it seems like the Plus gives me measurements up to 2000cd/m^2 and the Pro has a measurement of the surrounding Light (wich I think is not necessary for me?) and 5 times the measuring speed (whatever that means…). So I think I would be good with the Display variant if it gives me the option for CCSS correction.

    Display version won’t work with HW calibration solutions, like Eizo or LG or Dell or Calman. If you are fine with that, Display version is just slower.

    Also where can I find the CCSS correction? I would like to check if the community have my displays before I would buy the other device.

    fro P3 mac is bundled with DisplayCAL just auto import. for others guess by display type and choose from bundled pack or

    https://colorimetercorrections.displaycal.net/

    Thank you for your help!

    #35680

    Vincent
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    Ok I think I found the CCSS database on the domain of displaycal.net

    I can find my laptop (MacBook Pro 16,1) and it says it has the CCSS for i Pro 2. Is that the “Calibrite ColorChecker Display Pro”?

    Could I also use it with the non pro variant?

    You are reading it wrong. CCSS are valid for ***ALL*** i1d3 colorimeter variants. That’s the point using CCSS, a distributed way to correct colorimeters using only display info, not colorimeter info. Colorimeter info is added on your computer from colorimeter firmware.

    i1 Pro2 is the spectrophotometer used to make that CCSS. It can work at 10nm resolution or 3nm using ArgyllCMS driver. None of these should bother you but WLED PFS backlight like in mac p3 needs high resolution reading, hence use CCSS 3nm from community or 1nm bundled in DisplayCAL with auto import.
    All P3 display from apple are equal, same WLED PFS backlight.

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