What is the actual difference between an “internal lut” vs RGB on the OSD?

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  • #23438

    thevisi0nary
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    I know that some monitors have an internal lookup table for calibration inside the monitor itself. What I wanted to know is what the difference is between this and changing RGB controls on the OSD of a typical monitor.  Is it worth it to get a monitor with an internal lut?

    #23455

    Vincent
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    OSD RGB controls allows you to fix white.

    Internal lut can fix at least white, grey neutrality & gamma (equivalent to 1D lut in graphics card), and some displays can even limit display gamut to some smaller colorspace (lut-matrix-lut or LUT3D).

    Although some GPUs do not cause banding artifacts when you load a calibration into them, others do, so such user writable internal LUTs in display solve this issue.
    Unfortunately some vendor software used to compute & store those internal luts is buggy or oversimplifies the problem so you may end with other issues like no neutral grey for some greys.

    Is it worth? it depends on your budget.
    For example a common IPS 6bit display like Dell U2415 is 200 euro, NEC EA241WU with the same panel or close relative but internal 1D-LUT  (just grey, white & gamma) is about 300 euro.
    In common sRGB 27″ QHD/UHD difference could go up to 200 euro.
    Also while you can tweak RGB gains visually, internal LUT is meant to be written from data computed with actual colorimeter/spectrophotometer measurements, so add at least 200 euro more (i1displaypro) to display price. Actual price difference in U2415 vs EA241WU goes up,  300 euro

    IMHO if you go to other vendor than NEC/Eizo for displays with HW calibration, it’s better to have a GPU that causes no banding when loading 1D calibrations into it (AMDs for example)… just in case vendor software does not work as intened while fixing grey (widegamuts from Dell, Benq, LG… you know) and you need to fix it using GPU on top of that HW calibration with DisplayCAL.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Vincent.

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    #23468

    thevisi0nary
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    Interesting, very helpful thank you. I have a benq ips (pd2700q). Despite poor uniformity on the right edge of the monitor, it is fairly decent when calibrating to srgb. I was debating getting the Benq sw270c, but outside of better uniformity I am not sure how much I would benefit from getting  it for the internal lut.

    #23469

    Vincent
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     I was debating getting the Benq sw270c, but outside of better uniformity I am not sure how much I would benefit from getting  it for the internal lut.

    IMHO it would have been a bad investment:
    -poor color uniformity as most of these lowcost widegamut monitors, or destroyed contrast (600:1 for an IPS in prad.de) if there is some kind of uniformity compensation
    -poor HW calibration software, worse than vewsonic or dell, and without the required spectral corrections for all SW models and an i1displaypro

    IMHO if you want an AdobeRGB  widegamut with internal lut and reliable software, save a litte money and go for an Eizo  CS2731. You just need 200 euro more in a 800 euro (SW270) purchase. Quality and functionality jump make them not comparable to each other.

    OTOH Benq PD series of sRGB displays seems to be a good line of products with the right price. Enjoy it.

    #23858

    Wire
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    Been using Dell DUCCS (Dell’s co-branded i1 Profiler) to write cal into display LUTs and the cal looks and works great with good options for alignment, except for one detail:  brightness is locked at whatever setting chosen during calibration with no option to adjust on fly. For me it’s a deal-breaker on using internal LUTs  ’cause I can’t control surroundings.  Garr

    #23859

    Vincent
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    It is no DUCCS limitation, or your model limitation… it seems a limitation your unit .
    Other U/UP with HW calibration can access OSD controsl for brightness & contrast although DDM (Dell Display manager) for Windows locks app brightness control. It should be accesible through OSD… and it really does not matter since DUCCS calulates calibration (white point & such) at 50% brightnesswhatever you calibration traget is, then it lowers brightness untill it get close to target (and white point maybe drift)

    (AFAIK UP25/27 shoul not let loeckd OSD controls (physical bttons on monitor) in CAL1/CAL2 modes… as I said other models do not lock it)

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by Vincent.
    #23862

    Wire
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    UP2516D in Cal1/2 mode locks out Bright/Contrast on front-panel. DDC/CI also locked out.

    DUCCS UI gives no indication of how to avoid this. I tried “Native” in the luminance selector, but that sets to max and still locked.

    Firmware is up to date as of Jan.

    If there’s a way to prevent this it would be nice to know.

    #23865

    Vincent
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    DUCCS UI gives no indication of how to avoid this.

    It cannot do that… it is not software limitation. It is a model limiation (weird, older models don’t) or some unit malfunction, IDNK.
    If you know how to program in C++ you can use SDK to send set brightness command using Dell SDK 2.0 (Debian/Mac/Win), search online.

    #23866

    Wire
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    Ah, of

    To be clear, I just mentioned DUCCS so readers would understand context of comment. I had no way of determining what’s limiting this function.

    It’s an unwanted behavior but both displays work the same way., so not fair to call it malfunctional in sense of a blown-gasket 🙂

    My thought was they are being slavish to accuracy by not letting you disturb a perfect alignment, or some such thinking.

    Re SDK, Ya someone already did for Mac, so Apple keyboard brightness control works over DDC/CI. And it works pretty well, with caveat that if key repeat is high a pair of displays changed at same time can go out of sync in brightness; a stupid race condition. It’s no big deal just a glitch. When you run control to end of scale the slow display catches up, so easy to reset.

    Search for MonitorControl (V1.71)

    But whatever, because the Cal1/2 locks this out too.

    Regards

    #23872

    Vincent
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    Re SDK, Ya someone already did for Mac, so Apple keyboard brightness control works over DDC/CI. And it works pretty well, with caveat that if key repeat is high a pair of displays changed at same time can go out of sync in brightness; a stupid race condition. It’s no big deal just a glitch. When you run control to end of scale the slow display catches up, so easy to reset.

    Search for MonitorControl (V1.71)

    But whatever, because the Cal1/2 locks this out too.

    This does not use Dell SDK 2.0… hence you cannot know yet if CAL1/2 is locked. It uses generic DDC/CI. Dell SDK sends commands over USB with its propietary set of comands.

    https://github.com/the0neyouseek/MonitorControl

    Third party dependencies
    MediaKeyTap
    MASPreferences
    DDC.swift
    AMCoreAudio

    vs

    https://dl.dell.com/FOLDER04721613M/1/DellMonitorSDK_2_0_0_FINAL.zip

    Supported version: 10.10 (“Yosemite”), 10.11 (“El Capitan”), Sierra (not sure if it will work in Catalina)

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