- This topic has 22 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hello,
First of all, thank you for providing this amazing open source tool. I’ve quickly realized over the last few days that this offers vastly more control than the old i1Profiler that I’ve been using in the past.
I’ve been struggling to get accurate results so far and I’m sure it’s user error my objective is to:
- Calibrate my Dell UP2516D so that it displays color faithfully
- Profile the DaVinci GUI on the UP2516D and create a viewer LUT to use for GUI color work
- Calibrate my 2nd monitor, a Dell U2410 so that it matches the UP2516D as closely as possible, especially the white point/color temp. This will allow me to look at both screens and not bias my interpretation of white while I work
Pretty consistently, the UP2516D has had a perceived warm/red tint to it and the U2410 has gone green. I’m not sure if one or the other is closer to correct or if they’re both off. I also haven’t found an appropriate profile for my i1Display Pro probe to set the UP2516D in sRGB space so at the moment, it is Adobe 1998 while my second display is sRGB. While I wouldn’t expect the displays to match perfectly, I would think that I could get a fairly consistent white point calibration between the two.
My previous calibration was done with the i1 software. I then developed a viewer LUT with displayCAL and that gave me some damn good results in Resolve. When I viewed my exports in Quicktime, they had weird saturation issues, especially in the shadows or reds on my UP2516D but looked excellent on my U2410, albeit with a perceived green tint. I figure this makes sense: quicktime doesn’t work properly in wide gamut setups.
Aiming to get more consistent results between screens (particularly white point), I’ve recalibrated both with displayCAL and made a new viewer LUT. Now I’m experiencing the following:
- UP2516D is still redish, tho slightly less so, U2410 is still green
- My viewer new LUT is absolutely off, white is reading warmer than 6500K
- The saturation issues in quicktime show up consistently on BOTH monitors, even though the ICC profile for the U2410 clearly shows that it’s calibrated for sRGB space
I suspect I’m doing something wrong in any of the following categories:
- Rendering intent – I’ve been using the default “absolute” flavor
- The probe profiles for the monitors. Been using the matrix options but the UP2516D has many options there
Any ideas about what I’m missing?
Calibrite Display Pro HL on Amazon
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.Hi,
Pretty consistently, the UP2516D has had a perceived warm/red tint to it and the U2410 has gone green.
This is probably metameric failure, meaning that even if the two monitors white points measure as the same chromaticity, the way the human vision works may still see a difference due to different spectral composition of the white points. The usual way around this is to pick one of the calibrated monitors as reference (doesn’t matter much which one, but I would probably pick the UP2516D) and adjust the other monitor’s white point purely visually to match that reference.
My viewer new LUT is absolutely off, white is reading warmer than 6500K
That seems to indicate the 1D calibration is probably applied twice, one time via the 1D calibration in the graphics card gamma tables, and one time through the viewer LUT. It’s easy to fix though by re-generating the viewer LUT (no new measurements required) without 1D calibration applied – see the Resolve 3D LUT guide in the Wiki.
The saturation issues in quicktime show up consistently on BOTH monitors, even though the ICC profile for the U2410 clearly shows that it’s calibrated for sRGB space
QuickTime is using the monitor ICC profiles, but has gamma 1.96 hard-coded for video material, so will never match a BT.1886 or gamma 2.2 calibration. It should be possible to fix the saturation issues though. Did you install a profile for both monitors? When you have used the Resolve preset in DisplayCAL, you can install the respective profiles by choosing the actual monitor on the “Display & instrument” tab, then clicking the “Install profile” button (next to “Settings” with the profile selected). You may be asked to let DisplayCAL generate high quality tables before you can install the profile.
Rendering intent – I’ve been using the default “absolute” flavor
If you go the visual white point matching method I mentioned above, you have to select “Relative colorimetric” as the whitepoint will already be pre-matched and should then not be altered by the LUT.
The probe profiles for the monitors. Been using the matrix options but the UP2516D has many options there
If you have a i1 Display Pro or ColorMunki Display, the X-Rite spectral corrections are an option, but also generic. The UP2516D should have a GB-r-LED backlight if I’m not mistaken, a matching correction should be “Spectral: LCD RG Phosphor”. The U2410 has a wide-gamut CCFL backlight.
This is probably metameric failure
Cool I suspected something along these lines but didn’t have the technical vocabulary. When you say adjust it purely visually, are you saying literally by hand with the OSD controls for the U2410? Or is there a way to do this by adjusting an ICC profile by hand? Or are you describing relative colorimetric rendering intent this way? Is there any way I could get my probe to do this for me?
Sorry I know this is basic stuff, I’ve been trying to get up to speed on all this very very rapidly this week.
That seems to indicate the 1D calibration is probably applied twice
Ok, I can see how I did that. In the Display and Instrument section, I set it to UP2516D and made an ICC profile. I then switched to Resolve mode and profiled my screen. I now see in your instructions that for GUI calibration you say not to do this – I think this is how I got double 1D profiles. Whats interesting is that previously I used the i1Profiler software first and then ran the Resolve mode and got solid results. Does that mean the i1Profiler ICC profile didn’t include a 1D adjustment?
QuickTime is using the monitor ICC profiles, but has gamma 1.96 hard-coded for video material, so will never match a BT.1886 or gamma 2.2 calibration. It should be possible to fix the saturation issues though. Did you install a profile for both monitors? When you have used the Resolve preset in DisplayCAL, you can install the respective profiles by choosing the actual monitor on the “Display & instrument” tab, then clicking the “Install profile” button (next to “Settings” with the profile selected). You may be asked to let DisplayCAL generate high quality tables before you can install the profile.
UGH I’ve wanted to understand what bullshit Quicktime is up to for SO LONG. Do you know why they chose to hard code it that way? Do you know of any alternative media players that can run on OS X and work with BT.1886 gamma? I’ve looked into MPV a little but the user-friendly distribution doesn’t make any of the color management accessible via GUI. I installed separate ICC profiles for each monitor – is that what you mean? The U2410 is running a sRGB profile and the UP2516D is currently Adobe 1998.
If you have a i1 Display Pro or ColorMunki Display, the X-Rite spectral corrections are an option, but also generic. The UP2516D should have a GB-r-LED backlight if I’m not mistaken, a matching correction should be “Spectral: LCD RG Phosphor”. The U2410 has a wide-gamut CCFL backlight.
Oh cool – so does this mean a user generated profile listed as “colormunki” would work with my i1Display Pro? Is there a place I can download generic profiles for those illumination types? DisplayCAL failed to import the calibrations from my installed software. I have both the Dell x-rite utility and the stock i1Profiler. I’m on OS X 10.11.6 for what its worth.
Thank you so much for your support on here – you offer better support than a lot of paid software does – get ready for some contributions!
When you say adjust it purely visually, are you saying literally by hand with the OSD controls for the U2410?
Yes.
Sorry I know this is basic stuff, I’ve been trying to get up to speed on all this very very rapidly this week.
Don’t worry about it, it’s a lot to take in initially.
Does that mean the i1Profiler ICC profile didn’t include a 1D adjustment?
Unlikely.
Ok, I can see how I did that. In the Display and Instrument section, I set it to UP2516D and made an ICC profile. I then switched to Resolve mode and profiled my screen.
As you use monitors that are directly connected (i.e. not via DeckLink or similar), you could also have used the first profile you created for generating the Resolve 3D LUT as well (i.e. by enabling the 3D LUT tab and advanced options in the options menu, then on the 3D LUT tab, disabling “Apply calibration (vcgt)” and setting “IRIDAS (.cube)” as 3D LUT output format, full range RGB, 65x65x65. In that case it is important that you install the profile that you created because the 3D LUT doesn’t apply 1D calibration).
Do you know why they chose to hard code it that way?
They are aiming for playback on devices in bright environments.
Do you know of any alternative media players that can run on OS X and work with BT.1886 gamma?
None apart from MPV unfortunately.
I installed separate ICC profiles for each monitor – is that what you mean? The U2410 is running a sRGB profile and the UP2516D is currently Adobe 1998.
The monitors shouldn’t use generic profiles. Install the ones you created with DisplayCAL.
Oh cool – so does this mean a user generated profile listed as “colormunki” would work with my i1Display Pro?
If by “ColorMunki” you mean “ColorMunki Display”, then yes (X-Rite has several very different instruments under the “ColorMunki” brand), although I would be careful with user-contributed corrections.
DisplayCAL failed to import the calibrations from my installed software.
You may want to try again – I did change the hosting configuration yesterday to work around an SSL-related download error under OS X that appeared recently due to a change in the way X-Rite serves their downloads.
Thank you so much for your support on here – you offer better support than a lot of paid software does – get ready for some contributions!
Thanks 🙂
When you say adjust it purely visually, are you saying literally by hand with the OSD controls for the U2410?
Yes.
Whoa. That’s intimidating.
As an alternative, could I turn on the Advanced Gamut Mapping options, activate CIECAM02 gamut mapping, and change the perceptual intent? I am not using my U2410 for the resolve GUI image, just the software scopes. I just want to match the perceived white point so that I can have internet browser windows open that don’t mess with my perception of white, and I’d like to open quicktimes on either monitor and have them display with the same perceived white balance. I do not need my U2410 to be mathematically correct, just perceptually (I hope I’m using terms that make sense).
Does that mean the i1Profiler ICC profile didn’t include a 1D adjustment?
Unlikely.
On second thought, I bet my first crack at Resolve mode calibration was also wrong, but far more difficult to perceive due to dumb luck.
As you use monitors that are directly connected (i.e. not via DeckLink or similar), you could also have used the first profile you created for generating the Resolve 3D LUT as well (i.e. by enabling the 3D LUT tab and advanced options in the options menu, then on the 3D LUT tab, disabling “Apply calibration (vcgt)” and setting “IRIDAS (.cube)” as 3D LUT output format, full range RGB, 65x65x65. In that case it is important that you install the profile that you created because the 3D LUT doesn’t apply 1D calibration).
Awesome! I will do exactly this tonight. Out of curiosity, why use 65x65x65 as opposed to 17x17x17?
The monitors shouldn’t use generic profiles. Install the ones you created with DisplayCAL.
Ah yes that’s what I meant, I installed the profiles created with DisplayCAL
You may want to try again – I did change the hosting configuration yesterday to work around an SSL-related download error under OS X that appeared recently due to a change in the way X-Rite serves their downloads.
It worked! Thanks!
Whoa. That’s intimidating.
It isn’t really, but probably requires a bit of practice. For example, if the U2410’s white is too green compared to the UP2516, you’d redurce green gain one notch (or increase red and/or blue gain) and compare. It’s a good idea to pick one channel that you won’t adjust initially (e.g. blue). Rinse and repeat until you have achieved a good visual whitepoint match. Then, set whitepoint to “As measured” in DisplayCAL and create a profile as you normally would.
As an alternative, could I turn on the Advanced Gamut Mapping options, activate CIECAM02 gamut mapping
No, those options cannot help for what you’re trying to achieve.
Awesome! I will do exactly this tonight. Out of curiosity, why use 65x65x65 as opposed to 17x17x17?
Superior precision mainly.
It isn’t really, but probably requires a bit of practice. For example, if the U2410’s white is too green compared to the UP2516, you’d redurce green gain one notch (or increase red and/or blue gain) and compare. It’s a good idea to pick one channel that you won’t adjust initially (e.g. blue). Rinse and repeat until you have achieved a good visual whitepoint match. Then, set whitepoint to “As measured” in DisplayCAL and create a profile as you normally would.
Ohhhhh ok, the ability to recalibrate after I adjust the white point using the “as measured” option is key here! Ok, I feel like I can do that. My previous calibration was done with the monitor set in its sRGB preset mode. I’ve switched it to custom color, which has thrown the ICC out of whack. So I’m going to switch back to the default profile, visually match the white point, and run displayCAL, leaving the white point “as measured”
I’ve now recalibrated and reprofiled the UP2516D and made a proper 3D LUT for resolve with the 1D correction disabled. The resolve GUI is now operating exactly as I hoped!
My U2410 on the other hand is giving me some issues. In order to access RGB controls for the monitor, I have to switch to “Custom” mode instead of the sRGB mode. I ran a new calibration and profile measurement and used the Interactive display adjustment feature. I installed the profile and while the default el capitan background looks mostly right, with an overall gentle green tint, there’s a weird blue/green spike in the GUI of DisplayCAL. I’ve attached a screenshot showing the finder browser for reference.
I did the profile verification and I notice near black is way off for color temp. Is this related?
To be clear, this blue/green spike appears elsewhere, notably in the text at the top of the display when “faded”
I installed the profile and while the default el capitan background looks mostly right, with an overall gentle green tint, there’s a weird blue/green spike in the GUI of DisplayCAL. I’ve attached a screenshot showing the finder browser for reference.
That looks like something is very wrong. Please attach the profile and related files (in DisplayCAL, use the “Create compressed archive” button next to the profile selected under “Settings”).
See attached zip
For now I’m using a default profile on that monitor which keeps it functional
Thanks. So the profile seems absolutely fine – I wonder if the effect you observed is some kind of Mac OS X quirk. I noticed the brightness is limited to 100 cd/m2 by the calibration, what you could try is adjusting the monitor to that value using its controls instead. The U2410 has good RGB balance, so you could also try skipping calibration entirely and only creating a profile (disable “Interactive display adjustment” and set tone curve to “As measured”).
I used to calibrate to 120 cd/m2 but given how much time I spend in front of my screen in pitch black, I was hoping to set it to 100 cd/m2. I already adjusted the U2410 brightness control to get down to 100 and that means its down to “15” (default is 50).
That’s an interesting idea regarding skipping calibration given the way I’m hoping to use the monitor.
I think it could be an OS X quirk too – the other place the green showed up was in the left sidebar of Finder windows. They look fine when the window is selected but when another window is selected and they go transparent, that green spike shows up in that panel.
I don’t know if this might help, but:
I had problems with XYZ+MATRIX type of profiles with Final Cut Pro – they showed green tint as well, although in footage viewer. The solution was to convert profile to be ONLY MATRIX(Switch to “Profiling Tab” and select “Curves + Matrix, Then go to Options-Create profile from measurement data, select the monitor profile you want to convert to only Matrix, Save it to desired location. Then apply it with DisplayCal(display preferences-color works as well))
Thanks WolfPeace – this seems to work! I like the idea of this solution since I can keep the BT.1886 calibration. I just did my visual white point adjustment and am re-runing the calibration and profile measurement.
Florian – do you see any serious drawbacks to this method if it kills that green in the GUI?
