Terrible verification results after recalibrating and creating a new profile.

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  • #31278

    Darcy Taranto
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    Hi there,

    Firstly, thank you so much for this excellent free software.

    I understand my equipment is low-grade, but for now I’d like to get as much out of it as possible before I upgrade to better items in the future.

    Main display: LG Ultrawide 25UM58

    Device: x-rite i1display studio

    OS: Mac OS 10.15

    I’m attaching five items to this post:

    • A profile from back in March, along with a corresponding verification report from the same day. I was really quite surprised how good the evaluation of this profile was.
    • A 2nd profile from the last few days, after I had decided I wanted to re-calibrate and adjust my display brightness. Along with a correspoding measurement verification from the same time. This report suggested this more recent profile was terrible across a whole range of colours.
    • A final verification report of the original March profile from the last few days after I tried to revert back to that. The report suggests the original profile is not performing as well as it did back in March since I’ve done the whitepoint recalibration on my display.

    So in summary, I’m trying to understand why I can’t seem to produce a profile for this display after recently re-calibrating it that’s as good as what I supposedly had back in March?

    Any suggestions to where I’m going wrong would be much appreciated!

    I’m open to getting the Pro version of the x-rite if people think it would be worthwhile for my current hardward as well as for the future. But for now I am still interested to get as much as I can out of my exisiting equipment.

    Thanks so much,

    Darcy

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    #31290

    Алексей Коробов
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    You’ve changed display brightness. Many consumer displays have two or more “color zones” for different brightness. Probably you’ve changed display preset. Find out right display meny settings or rebulid profile from start. You can add notes on settings to profile when gamut summary dialogue will be shown after profiling. You may then check them in Profile Info text part, at the end of listing.

    #31291

    Darcy Taranto
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    Hi Алексей,

    Thanks so much for the reply.

    I did change the target brightness. I wanted to change the target from 160cd/m^2 to 130cd/m^2.

    However, I didn’t use any presets or any other setting other than the RGB controls. There’s no preset currently in use, and the brightness and contrast are both set to ’50’ or ‘halfway’  which I believe is the default (on a scale of 1-100).

    The Profile that I tried to make on the 16th of August was completely built from scratch after recalibrating the RGB levels to 6500K using the DisplayCAL live meter.

    I’ll have a look at the notes on the gamut summary dialogue. But is that just for my benefit as a future reference? Or does it affect the profile’s usage in macOS?

    Thanks so much,

    Darcy

    Edit: I should say as well that when I first got the display I reset it factory defaults, and then turned off any ‘dynamic’ functions and unecassary features. Since then I’ve only adjusted the basic RGB controls during the DisplayCAL calibration stage.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Darcy Taranto. Reason: For clarity:
    #31294

    Vincent
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    However, I didn’t use any presets or any other setting other than the RGB controls. There’s no preset currently in use, and the brightness and contrast are both set to ’50’ or ‘halfway’  which I believe is the default (on a scale of 1-100).

    Maybe you clipped one channel. I hate those 50default controls for gains, it’s better that OSD firmware work on 0-100 range with 100 default (native white) so you get a hint of what you are goling to loose… but if your model works that way there is nothing you can do to make it work the other way.

    Also contrast droped from 800 to 600 so it’0s very likely that you mess up with OSD gains. Factory reset, lower brightness close to your target and while setting RGB gain take a look on soem non color managed gradient or patterns like PNGs from lagom lct test but opened on MS Paint.
    INDK how display behaves when you pass “50” gain so trial & error.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    #31302

    Darcy Taranto
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    Also contrast droped from 800 to 600 so it’0s very likely that you mess up with OSD gains

    Yeah I noticed and wondered about that.

    I think you’re right — I’ll do a full factory reset and go through the process as cleanly as possible. Do you recommend using the actual ‘Brightness’ control to adjust the brightness, rather than just the combination of the RGB controls to achieve the target?

    And you’re refering to these, right: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php?

    I’m on macOS, so would it be appropriate enough to set the display colour profile back to the default one in System Preferences and view the gradient images in Preview during the RBG adjustments?

    Thanks for the help and suggestions

    #31304

    Vincent
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    Never use RGB gains to adjust brightness (unless weird uniformity compensation OSD lock like older U2713H and such, and in those ines you cna use it only fro P2 appraisal conditions). Regarding lacom test I was thinking of contrast ramp, but IDNK how you can use that on macOS non color managed.

    #31306

    Алексей Коробов
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    Regarding lacom test I was thinking of contrast ramp, but IDNK how you can use that on macOS non color managed.

    Download and set X-Rite linear profile. Am I right? I also see that similar profile is installed by DisplayCAL (actually to Windows, I haven’t tried this on Mac) when you start “measure whitepont” dialogue (an alternative WP choice).

    Little brightness decrease by curves may be used to achieve closer WP and in some situations with very odd calibration curves.

    #31314

    Darcy Taranto
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    Hi everyone,

    So I reset the display back to factory settings. FYI these were the defaults:

    Brightness: 100

    Contrast: 70

    RBG: all @ 50 (out of 100)

    Gamma: 1 (out of 1, 2, 3 and Off)

    I returned my target white level to 160cd/m^2, and kept the white point target at D6500.

    I used the RBG gains during the interactive calibration tool to get the whitepoint deltaE to within 0.0-0.2, and then used the brightness control to return the level to around 160.

    I ran the Medium length calibration speed and set the profile settings to default values of High quality and the basic 1xCurve that macOS suports .

    Attached are the ICC profile and verfication results.

    To me, they basically seem the same as my one last week. The contrast hasn’t improved by much, and there are still really bad average and mac deltaE readings. I also did a test turning the Gamma option to ‘off’ but the results were effectively the same.

    Interestingly enough, I went back and opened up some of the verfication reports from before I got the really good results on 11th of March. They contrast varied, mostaround the mid 600s to one results of 900. But the average and max values were mostly in the 1-4.0 range. Never these 7+ max readings I’m getting now.

    Does it probably boil down to having a cheap display, plus the bottom of the line measurement device? Was the one good result I got on 11th March just a fluke?

    Thanks so much for everyone’s time they’ve given so far, I really appreciate all the replies and suggestions.

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    #31317

    Алексей Коробов
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    1. Don’t use brighness 100, but set it close to 160 cdm (using pre-calibration RGB-bars DisplayCAL dialogue), play with RGB values in display menu to achieve color temperature close to 6500K. If you’ve got delta E <0.5, upscale brighness to 160 cdm and restart process with native WP and native brightness settings, if you haven’t – upscale to 163-165 cdm and continue with target WP 6500K and target brightness 160 cdm settings. You may also return RGB values in display menu to defaults, while brightness will increase and the decreased by profile, this approach could give you better results for 1xCurve profile. If your RGB bars in menu don’t change white, upscale brightness to 170-180cdm, you may need more than one attempt in this case.Your test still shows brightness and contrast decrease by calibration curves, while your old profile seems to use the whole possible RGB range.

    2. Use medium calibration speed, it is enough in most cases.

    3. Have you installed and set X-Rite linear profile (attached) before the process? I’m not sure if this is needed in the last DisplayCAL, but it was needed in old versions.

    4. Have you changed vertical scan frequency (59Hz/60Hz/75Hz etc.)? Some displays radically change color output after frequency switch.

    5. Try to build a profile of XYZLUT+mtx type, 425 patches in color table (usable for Ps in Mac, but not for general applications), can it correct color? If so, you’ve build your old profile using some other display or video signal output settings.

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    #31321

    Darcy Taranto
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    Thanks for getting back to me so quick.

     

    3. Have you installed and set X-Rite linear profile (attached) before the process? I’m not sure if this is needed in the last DisplayCAL, but it was needed in old versions.

    — I haven’t installed the linear profile, no. I’ve been setting the display profile back to the default for the display within the macOS Display prefences before starting the process each time. I actually have to log out and log in again for the profile setting to actual ‘stick’. Otherwise profiles tend to flicker back and forth after they’ve just been chose from this menu.

    I will start using the linear profile before I begin the process from now on.

    4. Have you changed vertical scan frequency (59Hz/60Hz/75Hz etc.)? Some displays radically change color output after frequency switch.

    I definitely haven’t changed this settings, no. The option to do this is actually greyed out for this display in System Preferences.

    1. Don’t use brighness 100, but set it close to 160 cdm (using pre-calibration RGB-bars DisplayCAL dialogue), play with RGB values in display menu to achieve color temperature close to 6500K. If you’ve got delta E <0.5, upscale brighness to 160 cdm and restart process with native WP and native brightness settings, if you haven’t – upscale to 163-165 cdm and continue with target WP 6500K and target brightness 160 cdm settings. You may also return RGB values in display menu to defaults, while brightness will increase and the decreased by profile, this approach could give you better results for 1xCurve profile. If your RGB bars in menu don’t change white, upscale brightness to 170-180cdm, you may need more than one attempt in this case.Your test still shows brightness and contrast decrease by calibration curves, while your old profile seems to use the whole possible RGB range.

    Sorry if I was not clear in my last post. I didn’t use brightness 100, that is just the factory default. I first used the RBG gains to set the white point to D6500, then I adjusted the brightness control on the monitor to hit 160.

    But, I would like to try what you’re suggesting here. just so that I’m clear on this process:

    Firstly,  I should hit the white level and point targets using the pre-calibration bars, then close and change the settings in DisplayCAL to both ‘as measured’?

    Then I’m confused about where you’re saying I should reset the RGB gains on the display to default (50, 50, 50). When should I do this exactly?  Won’t that massively change the whitepoint (and brightness)?

    I can definitely hit the white point target of <0.5 delta E and the 160 whitelevel using the RGB and brightness controls. And my RGB gains do change the white on values less than 50. Above 50 they do not change white, so I always lower them during the calibration.

    If you could let me know what you meant by ‘You may also return RGB values in display menu to defaults’, I’d be happy to give this a go and let you know the results.

    Thanks

    #31322

    Алексей Коробов
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    Your display may have good (close to 2.2) gamma characteristic, and this provides you better quality of 1xCurve profile. But when you change RGB bars, you probably break it. That is why making WP correction in profile may be better than display tuning itself. My approach allows you to find out right brighness setting for desired WP and cdm level. Set 6500K and 160cdm in DisplayCAL, start process and tune your display to get those values. Then reset RGB to defaults, but keep brightness setting. Now return to DisplayCAL settings and set brightness “as measured”, restart process, pass pre-calibration dialogue with no adjustments. DisplayCAL will achieve ~160cdm while decreasing RGB maximal values with calibration curves to get 6500K WP.

    #31323

    Darcy Taranto
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    Ah I see now, that makes a lot of sense.
    Okay I’m eager to try this — the only issue is that when I reset my RGB gains, my brightness will increase and not be at 160cdm anymore.
    To be clear: achieving the target of close  to D6500 white point means I have to lower all my RGB gains quite a lot until they hit < 0.5 delta E. So even if I then hit 160cdm by raising my brightness control, once I reset my RGB values the brightness will shoot up again.
    So if I choose ‘as measured’ after the RGB reset, the reading will be a lot greater than 160 when it measures the display.

    Will that be a problem? Or is that the intention in your method?

    Otherwise, this sounds like a really exciting solution, thanks!

    #31324

    Алексей Коробов
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    Usually there’s no big difference between in-display RGB tuning to 6500K and correction WP to 6500K by DisplayCAL. RGB tuning is generally prefered because some people think that display makes it better, it may have 10 bit electronics inside (not panel itself, but rendering chips). But in some cases RGB tuning crashes almost linear RGB growth (implying gamma 2.2 contrast curve) of well-made display. And 1xCurve profile type is unusable for heavily distorted display response, so sometimes it is better to correct WP by DisplayCAL. There’s no visible color difference between profiles made for 140 and 180cdm (IPS panel contrast also will stay the same), so you can move brightness slider for your taste, but some displays have color gaps when you move this slider, you should check it.

    Wrong brightness is not the case itself, but you should get good overall color correction.

    #31327

    Darcy Taranto
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    Okay thanks for that information, really interesting.

    I will give it a go with the RGBs all reset to default and see what happens

    #31333

    Darcy Taranto
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    Hey Алексей,

    Here’s the ICC and the measurement report.

    Seems like the contrast has shot up, but it also seems the assumed target whitepoint was 6300K, not 6500?

    And the deltaE values across the range are just as bad as ever….

    When I first got the monitor and tried to do the calibration+profiling. The worst Maximum deltaE value I ever got was like 4.5. Mostly I’d get around 2-something. I just don’t unerstand why it’s consistently around 7 now…

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