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Hi everyone
I have a BenQ PD2725U, which according to the data sheet and support email has a W-LED IPS display. I was explicitly told that this information came from the engineers and that it does not use a phosphor display at all. Datacolor then told me that I should use the “Wide Gamut” mode to measure this display with my SpyderX. That all sounds wrong somehow, because the monitor can display 95% of Display P3.
When I want to create a profile for my monitor with argyllcms, I have to set the white point during calibration via dispcal, same like in DisplayCAL. The monitor is then set to user mode, gamma 2.2, native gamut.
The command I use is: dispcal -v -d1 -qh -H -yb -t6500 -g2.2 -b150 BenQ
6500K white, gamma 2.2, brightness 150 (my working room has arround 160 Lux), -yb uses the wide gamut mode for the SpyderX!The problem is that the white point measured with the SpyderX looks very wrong to me! The BenQ has a factory calibration with a DeltaE 1.1 certification! And the white point looks much too yellow-red after calibrating with the SpyderX! I see a big difference compared to the factory-calibrated white point. Now I don’t know who to trust. Because the white point on the SpyderX varies greatly depending on whether I change the mode for the monitor (Wide Gamut LED, Standard LED, GB LED), with differences of around 7 deltaE, and up to 10 to the factory white point! But no measurement even comes close to the factory-calibrated white point. I know that factory calibrations aren’t that accurate, but such a difference?
Here some more data what the setting on the monitor shows to the whitepoint:
Factory calibrated setting is: Red 99%, Green 94%, Blue 96% (This shows de factory calibrated whitepoint isn’t just all 100%, it is calibrated!)
Afer SpyderX measurement with Wide Gamut Display: Red 99%, Green: 90%, Blue; 86%What do you think about all this? Is the SpyderX just a bad Colorimetri? Are the info for the LED technology provided wrong?
SpyderX Pro on Amazon
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I think that the factory calibration is more accurate and that the SpyderX is way off. I have a second display, a Huion Kamvas Pro 19, RGB-LED IPS with 99% sRGB, 96% AdobeRGB, 98% DCI-P3! Like the BenQ, it was factory calibrated but with even a better deltaE of 0.91, with a Konica Minolta CA310 which is a device that costs several thousand dollars. I have exactly the same problem with both displays with my SpyderX!
In this case, would you also trust the factory calibration more and not calibrate with the SpyderX right?
Since I don’t have the money to buy another calibration device at the moment, I am now wondering about a suitable interim solution for the next maye half year until I eventually buy a Calibrite ColorChecker Studio, which is supposed to be a spectrometer. I won’t have such problems then, is that correct?
My idea now is to use both displays as follows:
1. BenQ PD2525U with the factory profile Display P3
2. Huion Kamvas PRo 19 with the factory profile AdobeRGB, or maybe better DCI-P3 cause it machtes better the other Display P3?In addition, I have a question about whether I need to load the standard COLORSPACE! profile for the respective displays in X11 or Wayland in the operating system in this case, so that the display server really knows in which gamut it has to send the colors to the monitor? So if I load the Display-P3 color profile for the BenQ and the AdobeRGB profile for the Huion as the monitor profile, this profiles for sure only describes the gamut range without correction? And in this case, that would be exactly what I want, because I want to use the monitors with the factory calibration.
I have seen videos showing that this is how it is done with hardware-calibrated monitors, so it should also work if I want to use the monitor in a pre-calibrated profile, even though it cannot be further hardware-calibrated?
Is my interpretation correct so far? I am a bit unsure about this!
Loading the standard color space profile is only an approximation as your displays’ primaries don’t align 100% on the AdobeRGB/P3 primaries. Ideally your profile should include the exact primaries of your display in the mode you’re currently using. As measuring them with the Spyder is problematic, your next best bet is a manufacturer provided profile/EDID info and hope the primaries are not that different on your model.
How does the white point compare between your monitors? Any noticeable differences in color using the factory defaults?
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Thanks for your reply!
I noticed totally no difference between the two monitors in colors when i use Display P3 Gamut Profile as the Monitor Profile in the OS for the BenQ with the Display P3 Color Mode active, and the AdobeRGB Gamut Profile as the Monitor Profile in the OS for the Huion with the AdobeRGB Color Mode. Both side by side with the same image! I think this is a good sign! Maybe okayish to work?
You write it is only an approximation, but it is better maybe than just use the wider gamut modes on the monitors without any icc profile in the os at all? Because then the displays has very different colors! But in the first opinion, loading a color gamut icc profile as the display profile was very counter-intuitiv and i thought this couln’t be true to do…
For the primaries, you say it is best to look if BenQ and Huion profides icc profiles for the modes? Huion has nothing provided, but BenQ has a ICC profile package for the monitor with the following Profiles inside:
AdobeRGB1998.icc, BenQ PD2725U.icc, DCI(P3) RGB.icc, Display P3.ic, sRGB Profile.icc.
But shouldn’t there be a profile for every gamut mode for the display with the specific primaries for every mode? I don’t know for which gamut mode the BenQ PD2725U.icc is, and as an example the shipped AdobeRGB1998.icc is the normal gamut without changed primary (same hash sum than the original icc from adobe itself). For the others i simply can’t say if they are with monitor specific primaries or just also the original color space gamut profile. Is there a way to figure it out securely? Becaues just hash don’t work here!Here is the package download if you want to know, the very last one afer expanding the list once: https://www.benq.eu/de-de/support/downloads-faq/products/monitor/pd2725u/software-driver.html
About the White point, it looks totally the same to me for both monitors in factoy settings.
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A yes just one notice, after a SpyderX calibration, both white points looks approximately the same for the monitors too, the Benq a tiny bit more in the red but comparable. But it is very noticable more in the yellow and red than the factory white point! As i mentioned before, i don’t think that the factory calirated white point is off by e deltaE 8-9! That and cause people here mentions the SpyderX is problematic for calibration, i trust more the factory now.
DisplayCAL has a profile info tool which shows you (among others) the primaries of the profile you open. Couldn’t download the BenQ in question to see for myself, link seems to be country restricted.
You don’t need a profile for every mode if you just use the one for the native gamut. I expect the manufacturer provided one to be more precise than simply using AdobeRGB, which of course is better than no color management at all.
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I can’t use DisplayCal cause many reasons, it is not shipped within my distribution, i have to compile by myself, i was not able to successfully do this. And last but not least i prever ArcyllCMS commands directly. Is there other way to check?
You think the ICC provided with the name of the Display is native? It doesn’t make sense to me, native gamut is only available in user mode, and here you need to adjust every setting by yourself, RGB is all of 100% initally and all over the place, nothing is calibrated, also gamma si free for choose and other stuff.
Maybe the direkt link works then for downloading? It says for Mac and Windows, but shouldn’t make a difference for Linux?
https://esupportdownload.benq.com/esupport/LCD%20MONITOR/Software/PD2725U/PD2725U_ICC%20Profile_0_Mac_Windows.zipAs for the Huion, my best bet is just use the original AdobeRGB color gamut then? Honestly, do you think i will geht good enough colors that no color is way off with this solution?
By the way i use Wayland! But the wrong SpyderX whitepoint measurement is in both X11 and Wayland the same!
BenQ PD2725U.icc contains the native primaries. Attached screenshots comparing them to P3 and AdobeRGB.
Hi everyone
I have a BenQ PD2725U, which according to the data sheet and support email has a W-LED IPS display. I was explicitly told that this information came from the engineers and that it does not use a phosphor display at all.
Typical support team not being able to answer what it was asked. The though “phosphors”=CRT phosphor… hence that lame answer.
All these LED backlight use phosphors (excluding outdated RGB LED backlight from 15-20 years ago).
White LED = blue led + yellow phosphor= SRGB gamut
W-LED “only” is missing information, but specs are usually incomplete. It would be likely W-LED PFS/KFS phosphors = From P3 to Full AdobeRGB+P3 native gamut.Your display is likely a W-LED PFS display.
Datacolor then told me that I should use the “Wide Gamut” mode to measure this display with my SpyderX.
yes, good advice.
That all sounds wrong somehow, because the monitor can display 95% of Display P3.
And that is widegamut so their answer is right
When I want to create a profile for my monitor with argyllcms, I have to set the white point during calibration via dispcal, same like in DisplayCAL. The monitor is then set to user mode, gamma 2.2, native gamut.
The command I use is: dispcal -v -d1 -qh -H -yb -t6500 -g2.2 -b150 BenQ
6500K white, gamma 2.2, brightness 150 (my working room has arround 160 Lux), -yb uses the wide gamut mode for the SpyderX!The problem is that the white point measured with the SpyderX looks very wrong to me! The BenQ has a factory calibration with a DeltaE 1.1 certification!
1.1dE distace to what? and in which OSD mode?
That “certification” (to whatever undisclosed target) is likely to be applied to sRGB or AdoberGB factory modes, not to “user” mode with access to RGB gainsAnd the white point looks much too yellow-red after calibrating with the SpyderX!
User error, (no colorimeter correction)
I see a big difference compared to the factory-calibrated white point. Now I don’t know who to trust. Because the white point on the SpyderX varies greatly depending on whether I change the mode for the monitor (Wide Gamut LED, Standard LED, GB LED), with differences of around 7 deltaE, and up to 10 to the factory white point! But no measurement even comes close to the factory-calibrated white point. I know that factory calibrations aren’t that accurate, but such a difference?
Yo should use Wide Gamut LED correction if you have no access to other instrument.
If in RGB gains mode D65 white does not white, it may be cause by unreliable correction from SpyderX (there are SEVERAL WLED PFS flavors and your display omnly has ONE correction for all of them) or by you being an statisticsl outlier of standard observer of a mix of the two.
That’s why no one recommends buying Spyders.
Are the info for the LED technology provided wrong?
yes
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1.1dE distace to what? and in which OSD mode?
That “certification” (to whatever undisclosed target) is likely to be applied to sRGB or AdoberGB factory modes, not to “user” mode with access to RGB gainsThe cetification writes that 1.1dE is average, and maximum allowed is 3.0dE, and this is for Display P3 mode (Gamma 2.2, 6500K). Now when i use this mode that is factory calibrated and compare the white patch with the one in user mode, RGB settings for whitepoint adjusted with the SpyderX for the same target, Gamma 2.2 and 6500K, it looks way to yellow-red! but both witepoints should be in the same “range” because my settings are in both, for the factory calibration 6500K and for the measurement 6500K!
This Monitor is 3 years old, but my second monitor is only a month old, and the whitepoint looks also exactly the same as the BenQ factory, both of course in the corresponding gamut mode that is factory calibrated!
User error, (no colorimeter correction)
Why you think it is use error? i loaded the wide gamut mode for my spyder, i tried all to compare, as i said in the initial post! And during adjusting the whitepoint with my spyderx, i target it to a deltaE of 0.4, according to the measurement with the spyder of course, and then this whitepatch from argyllcms looks way to in the red-yellow!
If in RGB gains mode D65 white does not white, it may be cause by unreliable correction from SpyderX (there are SEVERAL WLED PFS flavors and your display omnly has ONE correction for all of them) or by you being an statisticsl outlier of standard observer of a mix of the two.
That was exactly my opinion, and I thought I had written it that way… perhaps not clearly enough!
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If I set the display’s gamut mode to the one that has been calibrated, and this mode has a white point of 6500k. and then I go into user mode and use SpyderX with DispCal to also set a white point of 6500k, i.e. I adjust the display with the RGB settings so that SpyderX gives me a white point of 6500k and the deltaE to this is only 0.4, shouldn’t both white points look roughly the same? I probably didn’t express myself very clearly above. Or is my assumption incorrect?
- Factory calibration is : Display P3 mode, Gamma 2.2, 6500K
- My settings for SpyderX calibration (setting whitepoint before the calibration process):
Display Settings: User mode, native gamut, Gamma 2.2, Whitepint adjustable with RGB Values
My target whitepint for the calibration: 6500K, Gamma 2.2
SpyderX Measuring Mode: Wide Gamut!
Where is the user error here? Shouldn’t Option 1 and Option 2 show same whitepoint, also visually?
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One more note about the white point and the settings in the monitor’s OSD:
– In user mode, you set the white point using the RGB values, whereby the default value here is of course 100 for each value.
– In the factory-calibrated “Display P3” mode, which uses 6500 K and gamma 2.2, these values are displayed as follows: R99 G94 B96 (but of course not changeable).
– With the SpyderX, which measures a white point of 6500 K and gamma 2.2, I have to adjust these values in user mode as follows: R99 G90 B87.To me, this clearly indicates that the SpyderX cannot accurately determine the white point and should be discarded. However, if I am indeed doing something incorrectly, please enlighten me!
1.1dE distace to what? and in which OSD mode?
That “certification” (to whatever undisclosed target) is likely to be applied to sRGB or AdoberGB factory modes, not to “user” mode with access to RGB gainsThe cetification writes that 1.1dE is average, and maximum allowed is 3.0dE, and this is for Display P3 mode (Gamma 2.2, 6500K). Now when i use this mode that is factory calibrated and compare the white patch with the one in user mode, RGB settings for whitepoint adjusted with the SpyderX for the same target, Gamma 2.2 and 6500K, it looks way to yellow-red! but both witepoints should be in the same “range” because my settings are in both, for the factory calibration 6500K and for the measurement 6500K!
This Monitor is 3 years old, but my second monitor is only a month old, and the whitepoint looks also exactly the same as the BenQ factory, both of course in the corresponding gamut mode that is factory calibrated!
This point to spyderX or your visual system vs std observer.
User error, (no colorimeter correction)
Why you think it is use error? i loaded the wide gamut mode for my spyder
I did nor read carefully “-yb uses the wide gamut mode for the SpyderX!“, my fault. This is because usually i1d3 users load -X on commandline instead of -y list provided by ARgyll in ots diretory.
If in RGB gains mode D65 white does not white, it may be cause by unreliable correction from SpyderX (there are SEVERAL WLED PFS flavors and your display omnly has ONE correction for all of them) or by you being an statisticsl outlier of standard observer of a mix of the two.
That was exactly my opinion, and I thought I had written it that way… perhaps not clearly enough!
The Spyder X doesn’t support the FPS panel on your display, which is why the resulting white point appears visually off. It’s best not to rely on manufacturer specs or DeltaE “certification” values, as manufacturers themselves admit they come with no guarantees. Trust only the DeltaE values you’ve personally measured using a reliable measurement device.
