Is it possible to measure the quality of color rendering of the monitor?

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  • #22514

    mauro
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    if I understand correctly, by launching a measuring report, I get a report of the accuracy of the profile created after the calibration.
    But I would also like a qualitative analysis of my monitor, not only of the profile, checking his color deviations in dE.

    Is it possible to do it, or what I ask is an idiocy? 🙂

    Thank you!

    #22530

    Vincent
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    if I understand correctly, by launching a measuring report, I get a report of the accuracy of the profile created after the calibration.
    But I would also like a qualitative analysis of my monitor, not only of the profile, checking his color deviations in dE.

    Is it possible to do it, or what I ask is an idiocy? 🙂

    Thank you!

    Against what?

    Common sRGB 99%/100% displays will have a gamut slighty larger than sRGB, hence 255 green or red will not match 255 sRGB red or green when not color managed.

    Profile verification by default makes sure that monitor behavior and profile match. If tehy match, color managed apps like CaptureOne, PS or GIMP can “transform” RGB numbers in color images colorspace to your display colropace (hence little different RGB numbers). You can evaluate that with simulation profiles BUT DO NOT set simulation profile as display profile.

    If you want “exact” match or test if monitor itself matches some colorspace without GPU calibration use simulation profile as display profile. But it will be not very useful unless you own some monitor with HW calibration and gamut emulation, or some factory OSD mode with gamut emulation (not just white and gamma, RGB emulated primaries too).

    If you want to test GPU calibrated matching against some colorpace without color management, like for example a common sRGB monitor meant for Premiere calibrated @ D65 g2.4, AFAIK you can use HCFR in Windows, but make sure that “disable video LUTs” is disabled.

    #22551

    mauro
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    Thanks for the reply
    My question arises from the curiosity to understand the procedure implemented in certain monitor reviews.
    tft central for example, shows the monitor’s dE before and after calibration.
    I’m curious to understand if it is possible to highlight with DisplayCal any difficulties of the monitor under test to reproduce certain colors correctly.
    For example, my monitor fails to reproduce accurately certain blues to my eye.
    After calibration, the situation improves, DisplayCal report show very low dE, but I have a feeling that the problem is not totally solved because I still see certain blues with a small purple component.
    What I would like is to have an objective feedback that confirms or denies certain feelings of mine.
    I would like to understand if it is possible to make a measurement of this type, and possibly how.

    Thanks again.

    #22557

    Vincent
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    Reviewers? Seems to evaluate against profile after calibration (usual way to validate), before calibration against whatever profile a factory calibrated OSD aims for.

    Regarding yor blue concerns, DisplayCAL can plot a 2D or 3D gamut of your display profile against other profile if yo want to see some visual feedback (make sure you use a*b* not xy). Also DisplayCAL measurements “trust” instrument, or instrument + correction, they shpuld be “valid” if numbers have to make sense (do not use old spyder2/3/i1display2 with LED displays, even with CCFL they may have aged too much, same with default corrections for Spyder4/5, or an uncorrected colorimeter)

    #22559

    mauro
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    I am using an old spyder2. I never had a problem with my old Eizo (CCFL), so I kept using it.
    Regarding the gamut instead, it is likely that the output of DisplayCal is already giving me an answer. The monitor covers over 98% of sRGB but cuts something right in the blue zone if I interpret it well. What do you think about it?

    EV2451 sRGB Gamut

    Thanks again for your patience.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by mauro.
    #22566

    Vincent
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    I am using an old spyder2. I never had a problem with my old Eizo (CCFL), so I kept using it.

    Very likely to have aged and WP is not reliable. If that a*b* plot is from a new WLED sRGB monitor, very likely to measure wrong. That device is not ready.

    Regarding the gamut instead, it is likely that the output of DisplayCal is already giving me an answer. The monitor covers over 98% of sRGB but cuts something right in the blue zone if I interpret it well. What do you think about it?

    EV2451 sRGB Gamut

    Thanks again for your patience.

    I won’t say that. I would say that native 255 is far from 255 sRGB blue, which is expected. ***IF*** profiling data is accurate (and it is not if you use an spyder2 on a WLED sRGB) a color managed app should be able to render a sRGB blue.
    Keep in mind that this is a 2D plot, in a 3D plot (DisplayCAL can generate it) you may see if sRGB blue goes out of 3D gamut boundaries of your display at different L* high that it can cover…. but if that happens and ***if profile is accurate*** it won’t look purple.
    So unless you are able to borrow a better measurement device… I won’t trust those measurements.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Vincent.
    #22570

    mauro
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    Thanks, you have given me valuable information.
    The problem is that I should have asked these questions a few days ago.
    In that case I would have purchased a new colorimeter, instead yesterday I have started the return procedure to Amazon of the Eizo EV2451 I am talking about. I was thinking of replacing it with a CS2410.
    I hope I don’t make a mistake.

    #22574

    Vincent
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    CS2410 should suport HW calibration with Eizo Color Navigator (CN), but check it on their website. Use it, then validate with DisplayCAL if you wish. It is possible that CN uses CIE 2012 2 degre observer, so its D65 looks cooler (but white, in daylight curve) when validated with DisplayCAL (standard 1931 2 degree), but you can run ArgyllCMS commandline and check white against daylight curve with that observer.

    CN requires i1displaypro, do not buy cheaper i1d3 versions.

    AFAIK it’s unknown which colorimeter correction is used by CN since it does not use the usual way like in other vendors, but since its a sRGB WLED you can check it white common “Whiet LED LG Samsung” (common IPS sRGB monitors)

    i1Display Pro on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #22575

    mauro
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    Thank you.
    Going back to the monitor that I am going to replace, I must admit that I was partially conditioned by this review.
    He says the monitor is off on red and blue.
    On the red I can’t see any particular problems, on the deep blues, as I explained to you, in fact it doesn’t convince me either. The article is written in Dutch, but with google translate if you wanted to do it, you could read it. I would be very interested in your comment! Thanks a lot!

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.techtesters.eu%2Feizo-ev2451-review%2F

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by mauro.
    #22577

    Vincent
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    It is not “off”, it’s just bigger than sRGB. If you wish near perfect sRGB emulation you’ll need a monitor with HW calibration and at least lut-matrix lut for gamut emulation (usually available in widegamut models like CS2420, check if CS2410 which is sRGB has that feature).

    Other option is to use color managed apps with whatever monitor covers 99% sRGB or better. That monitor for review would render sRGB images OK in Photshop or GIMP, or Firefox (full color management enabled) even if its native red is outside sRGB, instead of sending (255,0,0) to display, color managed app will send another set of colors like… (255, 0, 5) and that color in that display would look like sRGB 255 red.

    HW cal with gamut emulation is a significative advantage *IF* you need very high accuracy and test things in other browsers like Edge or something like that… but most web designers do not need such degree of accuracy, YMMV. Also they will look off on most mobiles.

    #22581

    mauro
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    Thank you.
    So, taking the conclusions, I would ask you for advice on what to do, because I am very confused.
    I am an amateur photographer, but this is only a relatively small part of my activities. I use my PC a lot to navigate the internet, play games, and of course to edit and view my photos. I have NEVER had a monitor born for photography, I have always been satisfied with a good monitor for general use, supported by a calibration implemented by the Datacolor software. My previous monitor was an Eizo L887 from the Flexscan range. An old 4: 3 TFT with CCFL backlight and 5000K native whitepoint. I always had a great time, and it also allowed me to manage the printing phase (which I did at home) very well. I never bought a photographic monitor, because finding myself comfortable with mine, it seemed an unnecessary expense for my needs. I have always thought of that kind of monitor, as products intended for the professionals or advanced amateurs. In the many years of service, the old Eizo obviously lost its original qualities, the lamps ran out while my eye, unknowingly, adapted to its altered rendering. So I finally thought of changing it to something current, thinking that anyway, even if I stayed in the Flexscan catalog, I could only improve, and I would finally have a 16: 9, finally fully compatible with modern applications and modern video games!
    Convinced that my old spyder2 could still perform its function, I calibrated it, first with the Datacolor software, then with better results, with DisplayCal. But I noticed that some blues didn’t look like I used to see. Monitor problem? Calibration problem? Or simply a problem of references? I can’t overlook the fact that the blue ones I saw them different on a tired monitor with 5000K natives. Note, that in my photos, the colors seem OK to me, even in the blues. The differences I catch on extremely simple elements, such as the blue of the facebook menu, or a button on a web page. In recent days I have tried to understand more about color, but it is an extremely complicated topic that cannot be learned in a few days. So, in doubt, still having a few days to ask for a return, I thought about doing it. For fear of regretting one day of not doing it. Being economically limited, I could aspire to the Eizo entry level of the CS range, the 2410 as much as possible. But would it really be a significant upgrade for my needs? I do not know. I only know that by purchasing also its indispensable colorimeter, I will spend more than double what I originally wanted to do. And then there is the discussion of the native resolution of the panel, I would switch to a 1920×1200, more suitable for photos but less standard for all other uses, and I wanted a standard panel, 1920×1080. Now you put the doubt on spyder2 and I really don’t know what to do anymore. Buy a new colorimeter (i1 display pro?) and try to recalibrate this EV2451, that in some ways  performs quite well,  has an excellent uniformity of backlighting, is not affected by backlight bleeding but only by a little ips glow, or return it and make the alleged qualitative leap? I am very doubtful and time is running out, I have a few days to decide whether to return or not. What would you do for me? And … side question, what happens on the calibration side, when I run a video game? Is the color profile used or not? Sorry for my prolixity.

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