how to reapply calibration on monitor that gains color cast on restart?

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  • #25858

    Tyler
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    hi, so i recently got a Cintiq 27QHD, however it’s got some issues. the main one of concern (in relation to this post) is that every time you turn it off and on again, it gains an awful green tint / colour cast over everything. it’s strong at first but dials down over time.

    however, the problem is that while the DisplayCal calibration is flawless when i finish running it, the green tint stays over everything once i turn the cintiq off and on again, no matter how long i leave it for afterwards. this is an issue since i kind of need this thing to do my artwork with (which is also how i make my money), and if everything is green tinted, that’s gonna cause all sorts of problems.

    so my question is if there is a way to easily reapply the calibration without having to literally do it all over again? this cintiq only looks good directly after a calibration, and gets ruined as soon as i turn it off and on again. and the green tint stays forever regardless of it it’s calibrated or not, but only goes away completely after a fresh calibration with displaycal pre-shutdown.

    extra notes. i have no idea if this will be useful, but im gonna include everything just in case one of them ends up being important:

    -im using a displayport connection (so like all DP monitors, windows acts like the monitor is unplugged and rearranges the desktop when you turn it off) running off of a gtx 1070

    -the cintiq is running in 8 bit (since i work in 8 bit in photoshop)

    -in the wacom display settings, it’s set to sRGB color space with uniformity compensation turned on (if it’s off, then the screen color uniformity is so bad, to me, that it’s unusable). i cannot manually change the RGB values when in sRGB color space, but displaycal seemed to have no issue with that and did a great job calibrating

    -i use 5 monitors (a 27 inch via DP, a 32 inch via DP, a cintiq 27qhd via DP, a 21 inch via usb adapter, and a 50 inch vizio tv via HDMI)

    additional question: im using an i1 display pro version 3, and i believe i determined that the correct correction is the “LCD GB-r-LED/RG Phosphor LED family”, since the cintiq 27qhd using that AHVA panel made by AUO. while i cannot 100% figure out what kind of backlight this thing uses, i did some research and i think it’s either a GB led or an RB led, so do you think the correction i chose is the right one, since there’s no RB led option? or am i wrong entirely? lol

    also, since im selling my old cintiq 21UX 2nd gen to a friend of mine, what correction and other options do you suggest i use for that so i can make sure my friend gets it properly calibrated on her computer?

    thanks in advance ^^

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    #25862

    Vincent
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    however, the problem is that while the DisplayCal calibration is flawless when i finish running it, the green tint stays over everything once i turn the cintiq off and on again, no matter how long i leave it for afterwards. this is an issue since i kind of need this thing to do my artwork with (which is also how i make my money), and if everything is green tinted, that’s gonna cause all sorts of problems.

    so my question is if there is a way to easily reapply the calibration without having to literally do it all over again? this cintiq only looks good directly after a calibration, and gets ruined as soon as i turn it off and on again. and the green tint stays forever regardless of it it’s calibrated or not, but only goes away completely after a fresh calibration with displaycal pre-shutdown.

    It looks that you are not using DisplayCAL calibration. Remove all other LUT loaders like the ones from Xrite tray and reinstall profile ensuring that DisplayCAL tray loader is instaled. It should reload GPU calibration periodically and if it does not happen when you turn off & ON Cintiq, just go to Displaycal tray icon and reload manually.

    -in the wacom display settings, it’s set to sRGB color space with uniformity compensation turned on (if it’s off, then the screen color uniformity is so bad, to me, that it’s unusable). i cannot manually change the RGB values when in sRGB color space, but displaycal seemed to have no issue with that and did a great job calibrating

    White point corrected through GPU LUT calibration loosing some unique grey levels, like in a laptop. As long as native WP is not very far from target WP should not be a huge problem.

    additional question: im using an i1 display pro version 3, and i believe i determined that the correct correction is the “LCD GB-r-LED/RG Phosphor LED family”, since the cintiq 27qhd using that AHVA panel made by AUO. while i cannot 100% figure out what kind of backlight this thing uses, i did some research and i think it’s either a GB led or an RB led, so do you think the correction i chose is the right one, since there’s no RB led option? or am i wrong entirely? lol

    AUO produced some low quality bad uniformity panels for Benq. It used a QLED backlight, search for SW2700PT but most of user made crrections are faulty, non native gamut CCSS. There may be other QLED AdobeRGB+P3 CCSS sampls on community database. Make sure to plot spectral powerr distribution with “(i)”button next to correction combo and look for signals that make son channel look like a combination of some others => emulated gamut (like your sRGB mode) => bad CCSS. CCSS should be native gamut no mamtter what preset you use.
    Search other threads here looking for that QLED backlights from Benq, maybe you’ll find a direct link to that CCSS.

    Xrite or Benq BAD approximation to a proper QLED EDR/CCSS was a “RGBLED” correction from Xrite. It does not match actual backlight in red (by far) but may work in a well behaved i1d3. Such well behaved i1d3 may not notice (<2dE) the change between U2413’s CCSS(GB-LED), a RGBLED and a “photo monitor” QLED form AUO. It’s up to actual sensivity curves stored in i1d3 firmware so it cannot be predicted in a generic way

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    #25864

    Tyler
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    It looks that you are not using DisplayCAL calibration. Remove all other LUT loaders like the ones from Xrite tray and reinstall profile ensuring that DisplayCAL tray loader is instaled. It should reload GPU calibration periodically and if it does not happen when you turn off & ON Cintiq, just go to Displaycal tray icon and reload manually.

    no other programs of the sort are installed on this computer other than Displaycal. i try reloading manually but that green tint is still there.

    White point corrected through GPU LUT calibration loosing some unique grey levels, like in a laptop. As long as native WP is not very far from target WP should not be a huge problem.

    so should i check on the “do not use video card gamma table to apply correction” option? because i never used the 3D LUT tab

    AUO produced some low quality bad uniformity panels for Benq. It used a QLED backlight, search for SW2700PT but most of user made crrections are faulty, non native gamut CCSS. There may be other QLED AdobeRGB+P3 CCSS sampls on community database. Make sure to plot spectral powerr distribution with “(i)”button next to correction combo and look for signals that make son channel look like a combination of some others => emulated gamut (like your sRGB mode) => bad CCSS. CCSS should be native gamut no mamtter what preset you use.
    Search other threads here looking for that QLED backlights from Benq, maybe you’ll find a direct link to that CCSS.

    Xrite or Benq BAD approximation to a proper QLED EDR/CCSS was a “RGBLED” correction from Xrite. It does not match actual backlight in red (by far) but may work in a well behaved i1d3. Such well behaved i1d3 may not notice (<2dE) the change between U2413’s CCSS(GB-LED), a RGBLED and a “photo monitor” QLED form AUO. It’s up to actual sensivity curves stored in i1d3 firmware so it cannot be predicted in a generic way

    that doesnt make any sense. cintiq 27QHDs are from around 2015, and im pretty sure the QLED monitors didnt come around until 2017 (they were only on TVs before that, but with a different name, i think). that Q in the cintiq name was probably just a marketing thing to make it more “next generation” sounding when compared to the 24HD

    #25865

    Vincent
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    -If green tint is there, no calibration is loaded. Clear GPU LUT calibration just in case your calibration is the cause and teh events are just the opposite of what you wrote (after DisplayCAL calibration there was no calibration loaded, on reboot ot gets loaded and you get wrong whitpoint).
    A source of this error is using wrong spectral correction for a backlight. If you are not able to find a suitable one, you’ll have to use visual white point appoach and “relative whitepoint” intents in all renderings to screen (which is what image editing apps use for image to screen, so no issue there, but making LUT3D for video keep that in mind, only rel. colorimetric).

    -QLED is older. SW2700PT is a low quality AHVA panel with severe unifomity issues unless some kind of UC is applied and QLED backlight from AUO. Its spectral power distribution signature is quite unique for that backlight and you have plenty of sources to check it out and even plot it.
    ZERO doubts about that. Your cinting may be not a QLED, but QLED is older that you thought and was emploed in that Benq model ~2015.

    -if you have no access to internal gains, you HAVE TO rely on GPU LUT white point correction loosing unique grey levels, like in a laptop. There is no other way to correct white. = 1 or 2 channel max output will be limited below 255 value.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    #25868

    Tyler
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    to anyone reading this: i just got word back from Wacom: the wacom cintiq 27qhd uses GB LED as the backlight!

    as for the main issue: i’ll try those things out tomorrow and let you know how they go

    #25869

    Vincent
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    Good to know actual backlight employed in that Cintiq, just happens that QLED was older than you thought.

    Regarding calibration, load/unload GPU cal from tray icon should be the smoking gun of which state is not working as intened.

    #25884

    Tyler
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    Good to know actual backlight employed in that Cintiq, just happens that QLED was older than you thought.

    yeah, turns out i was super wrong about that lol

    Regarding calibration, load/unload GPU cal from tray icon should be the smoking gun of which state is not working as intened.

    i’ll try that out. also, how do i use GPU LUTs? like is there an option to activate it or something?

    #25885

    Vincent
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    Regarding calibration, load/unload GPU cal from tray icon should be the smoking gun of which state is not working as intened.

    i’ll try that out. also, how do i use GPU LUTs? like is there an option to activate it or something?

    It’s just grey calibration stored in VCGT tag inside DisplayCAL (& other vendor) display ICC profiles.

    Just go to DisplayCAL tray, profile associations, choose one profile as “default” for Cintiq display and it loads VCGT contents of that profile to the GPU LUT for that display output. Also it registers that ICC as “current” display profile for applications that knows how to deal with them (color managed apps).

    Go to tray, select “reset” and it goes clean (output=input , no GPU calibration).

    One of these two configs is making your cintiq have a green cast (in white I suppose). Find which one. Having a big MS paint canvas on white background helps seeing it.
    One you find whcih one is making things look wrong you can proceed with solution:

    reset makes display go green => you are not loading calibrion on windows logon. Try to reload it manually

    ICC grey calibrtion makes display go grey => verify profile using DisplayCAL.
    Maybe profile is wrong and your device with current colorimeter correction (GBLED U2413’s CCSS) measurs properly (will validate NOK white point by large amount), so redo calibration and make sure all thigs are OK.
    Maybe colorimeter correction selected for validation is not accurate for that display or there is a huge metameric observer failure with your particular vision, or you have one bad i1d3 which is very unlikely (will validate ok but you’ll see white too much green by lage amount), => use visual white point editor.
    Maybe using a very limited GPU without high bitdepth dithered luts, so it cannot load the calibration “as is” and it gets truncated to 8bit, so there is some rounding error… and that is not solvable with that GPU. Maybe choosing a closer whitepoint target to your sRGB preset native white helps there.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    #25904

    Tyler
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    okay so i figured out the problem.

    what was happening was that displaycal was turning off the “use my settings for this device” option in the colour manager. this somehow caused it to not load the calibration every time i turned the monitor off and on. with it ticked back on, it’s now loading the calibration!

    #25905

    Vincent
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    Glad to read that it is solved… but this is hardly caused by displaycal. That checkbox, even entire custom user profile list can be wiped out upon GPU driver update. Or maybe by one of the “big” updates of OS. That would be my first culprit to investigate.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Vincent.
    #25907

    Tyler
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    Glad to read that it is solved… but this is hardly caused by displaycal. That checkbox, even entire custom user profile list can be wiped out upon GPU driver update. Or maybe by one of the “big” updates of OS. That would be my first culprit to investigate.

    it was displaycal though. every time i needed to redo a calibration thanks to the pain of this cintiq, i’d have to turn the option back on so i could reset to the SRGB profile and calibrate from there. and then every time displaycal ran its thing, it would turn it off again

    #25912

    Vincent
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    Hard to believe, seems more related to OS behavior when you plug or unplug a new display.
    AFAIK displaycal does not even have such feature, but better ask Florian. I would say that you miss the culprit by a huge margin.

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