Help with a doubt about monitor and color space

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  • #141463

    Vladimir Finn
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    Hi all ..   I was looking to buy a new monitor  and in the meantime I realize that  many monitors need calibration  so I started to  research and  look for info  etc..    its obvious that I don’t have a budget  to buy a super  cool expensive factory calibrated monitor ..  so I ended up with a few  used /refurbished ones ..   some are profesional grade     some are  ” not bad but  not what the  advertisement says xD )   but what  I don’t understand  and what’s bugging be ( and  the reason I came  to this forum )  is   to ask about  colorimeters and monitors  and what I don’t  understand:

    the question is :   if I buy a monitor  ( for example a samsung 28 ” S80  4k ips .. ) with 140% srgb , 95 % dci-p3,90% adobe rgb     right out the box  its set in dcip3 color space ..  but I need to work in S-rgb only ..    this monitor  ( and others )  has its  dedicated srgb ”mode”

    but  this mode  in many reviews   calibration shows it dials back the srgb to  like 92% ..   and I would like to have 99% .

    so    if I buy a monitor  with  decent ”not perfect”  color space /coverage.   like  the above  ( I have others. but  they are similar)  Does a colorimeter  could  fix  that  srgb discrepancies ?  from what’s in the preset  92%.  srgb    to  99% srgb ?

    or    a monitor  could have 140% srgb  95 dcip3.  but  a colorimeter would not be  of any help because   monitor panels .. their led .. and color space they can display  are not so simple and straight forward as  I think ?

    by the way IM speaking about color space  percentage not volume.

    thanks

    #141467

    Ben
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    Is your target a 3d lut?   I believe all 3d luts have 99.99% color space .   Even stretching the 92% to 100% might introduce banding.     Finding a good monitor is the best step.    What monitor do you think is good?    I am not a expert and I think you are doing a expert job and not just a user.   You may only care about color managed apps.    I do not know if you can get 99% srgb on all monitors with 140% srgb.   I do not have a monitor like that.    I am not video editor or anything.    This might help. https://medium.com/visual-captive/picking-a-monitor-for-video-editing-color-correction-srgb-dci-p3-rec-709-what-they-mean-and-34e65fc88284#:~:text=At%20a%20minimum%2C%20you%20need%20to%20buy%20a,colors%20correctly%20and%20some%20shades%20will%20be%20missing.

    #141470

    Vladimir Finn
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    https://medium.com/visual-captive/picking-a-monitor-for-video-editing-color-correction-srgb-dci-p3-rec-709-what-they-mean-and-34e65fc88284#:~:text=At%20a%20minimum%2C%20you%20need%20to%20buy%20a,colors%20correctly%20and%20some%20shades%20will%20be%20missing.

    Ben!  thank you so much  for the info  and  taking your time  ..     for work I do mostly things that will be displayed on web . so  srgb  should be  accurate ..   and. IM not an expert either  🙂 ..       its  just that  Im slowly getting into  photography ..  and I’ll be  taking pictures of my traditional artwork/illustrations  and  sending those files to the print  shop ..   they are ok with srgb    but  a client  whants   a couple of  files in Adobe RGB .( because  his print atelier works with that color space.    I know the drill  about selecting/shoting in different color spaces   etc..    it’s just  that. I didn’t wanted to  burn a chunk of $$  in a factory calibrated monitor  yet ( I don’t have that chunk of money  also. lol )  mostly because  I want to see how this all  evolves..      A friend who is a photographer   he work in srgb  and sometimes in Adobe RGB ..     he has 2 monitors one pro and the other  just  a good one  but only 94-96% adobe   he showed me the differences and for me they are  not so huge  ( at least for me ) . and because IM not going to do any critical work ..

    the reason Im among to an adequate  Adobe RGB monitor  ( 91-94-96% )  is because I want to have  some kind of control /chance  to manipulate myself  an Adobe RGB file  in a monitor with that color space,  just in case I would need to go and print int myself  here were I live ..   also .. further  to make some experimentations ..

    in a nutshell I thought  if a monitor has a wide gamut   I could make  color profiles  with a colorimeter   and work in those spaces  when needed  .. but  I now  having some doubts  :/

    I saw many photographers  working with an apple display  5k,   or an iMac 27 ( same 5k display) and  they roughly have. Srgb 100%. Delta E:  044.    After calibration. 033 ,   Adobe rgb  88%      ,Dcip3. 98%.        they are well calibrated and balanced. with good delta E. and gamma .   but they seems enough to work with .

    when I was doing my research / list.  what my budget allows  and  which are  on the market to buy  right now      a couple   pop up  like these :

    HP 28U. https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/hp-u28-4k-hdr-monitor.  10 bit ( 8+frc)   100 srgb- 84% adobe  -89 dcip3     but  on hp web it claims  93@ dcip3.  )   and it feels like  some kind of shill hat   or something like that.  :/

    Samsung  27 S80ua  https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-27-inch-s80ua   10 bit   same  but more odd.   its default-reset is  on the dcip3 color space      in delta E and gamma   both  hp and this S80ua  seems around the same ..  but   what I don’t get is    why   in dcip3 mode srgb is 140%  but if I want to  work only in srgb  it give me a miserable 90%  ( using the monitor  option).        therefore my question . . if I can  fix this   by using a color calibration tool. like a x  1i xrite  pro .or  data color spider  x …   or else..

    also this one LG  27UP600 W A US. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/okmovk/lg_new_4k_monitor_review_27up600w_with_displayhdr/

    right out of the box is very inaccurate   but after calibration    it achieved good results :  100 srgb , 87% adobe, 95% dci-p3

    gamma : 2.20   color temperature: 6521k ,  average delta E. 0.15. and maximum delta of 1.11

    #141471

    Ben
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    I would dig into the CCSS files and get a monitor with a ccss file.    You need a spectrometer to make a ccss file.   It be nice to have a display in here  https://colorimetercorrections.displaycal.net/   .   

    I think the HP 28u is in there.    I found 28u1 searching for hp 28u.   HP 28u reads good.  https://www.displayninja.com/hp-u28-review/

    Calibrite and Xrite colorimeters are a lot better than data color spyder.   The ccss works with calibrite and xrite .

    #141483

    Vincent
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    https://medium.com/visual-captive/picking-a-monitor-for-video-editing-color-correction-srgb-dci-p3-rec-709-what-they-mean-and-34e65fc88284#:~:text=At%20a%20minimum%2C%20you%20need%20to%20buy%20a,colors%20correctly%20and%20some%20shades%20will%20be%20missing.

    Ben!  thank you so much  for the info  and  taking your time  ..     for work I do mostly things that will be displayed on web . so  srgb  should be  accurate ..   and. IM not an expert either  🙂 ..       its  just that  Im slowly getting into  photography ..  and I’ll be  taking pictures of my traditional artwork/illustrations  and  sending those files to the print  shop ..   they are ok with srgb    but  a client  whants   a couple of  files in Adobe RGB .( because  his print atelier works with that color space.    I know the drill  about selecting/shoting in different color spaces   etc..    it’s just  that. I didn’t wanted to  burn a chunk of $$  in a factory calibrated monitor  yet ( I don’t have that chunk of money  also. lol )  mostly because  I want to see how this all  evolves..      A friend who is a photographer   he work in srgb  and sometimes in Adobe RGB ..     he has 2 monitors one pro and the other  just  a good one  but only 94-96% adobe   he showed me the differences and for me they are  not so huge  ( at least for me ) . and because IM not going to do any critical work ..

    the reason Im among to an adequate  Adobe RGB monitor  ( 91-94-96% )  is because I want to have  some kind of control /chance  to manipulate myself  an Adobe RGB file  in a monitor with that color space,  just in case I would need to go and print int myself  here were I live ..   also .. further  to make some experimentations ..

    I saw many photographers  working with an apple display  5k,   or an iMac 27 ( same 5k display) and  they roughly have. Srgb 100%. Delta E:  044.    After calibration. 033 ,   Adobe rgb  88%      ,Dcip3. 98%.        they are well calibrated and balanced. with good delta E. and gamma .   but they seems enough to work with .

    If you use color managed web browsers (Firefox can be forced to work that, HTML and images without cilorspace will be considered sRGB and renderd as they should), you can be 100% of your time in native gamut.
    Also Photoshop is color managed, so 100% tiem you’ll be on native colorspace working with several colospaces. Just check in Color Settings in Adobe PS: “profile mismatch” : on opening UNCHECK, on paste UNCHECK. Missing profiles: ASK, and set as DEFAULT forwing space sRGB. That way when you open a JPG with no embedde profile it will ask youto assing sRGB. BUt if you open an AdobeRGB TIFF it will open directly in its embeded colospace.
    BY default Photoshop ask when there is a mismatch between default colorspace and ambeded image’s profile… which is a PITA. So uncheck those two options.

    Now let’s assume that you work modeing for games or such, which are not color managed. Or that your browser is not properly color managed. So in those situations you actually need to simulate sRGB system wide, like if your display was a sRGB only display.
    Then you can use DMWLUT (lauralex github) to simulate sRGB:
    -create a native gamut profile with displaycal.
    -create a LUT3D that transforms from sRGB (origin) to you custom profile (destination),  apply VCGT
    -set as display profile in OS settings the simulated colorspace (sRGB)
    -open DWMLUT and load LUT3D.

    Regarding displays if you go to lowcost segment then aim for a 9x% P3. Assume 8x% AdobeRGB, you’ll loose some very saturated printable cyan-geen colors, that’s all.

    when I was doing my research / list.  what my budget allows  and  which are  on the market to buy  right now      a couple   pop up  like these :

    HP 28U. https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/hp-u28-4k-hdr-monitor.  10 bit ( 8+frc)   100 srgb- 84% adobe  -89 dcip3     but  on hp web it claims  93@ dcip3.  )   and it feels like  some kind of shill hat   or something like that.  :/

    Samsung  27 S80ua  https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-27-inch-s80ua   10 bit   same  but more odd.   its default-reset is  on the dcip3 color space      in delta E and gamma   both  hp and this S80ua  seems around the same ..  but   what I don’t get is    why   in dcip3 mode srgb is 140%  but if I want to  work only in srgb  it give me a miserable 90%  ( using the monitor  option).        therefore my question . . if I can  fix this   by using a color calibration tool. like a x  1i xrite  pro .or  data color spider  x …   or else..

    also this one LG  27UP600 W A US. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/okmovk/lg_new_4k_monitor_review_27up600w_with_displayhdr/

    right out of the box is very inaccurate   but after calibration    it achieved good results :  100 srgb , 87% adobe, 95% dci-p3

    gamma : 2.20   color temperature: 6521k ,  average delta E. 0.15. and maximum delta of 1.11

    Usually thses CALMAN rerports are useless. Thats what we like DIsplayCAL HTML report, we can peek betering on greyscale color tints.

    Prad.de web have very good reviews regarding grascale issues and color uniformity, you can try to search there if they reviewed some ofthe models you want to buy.

    in a nutshell I thought  if a monitor has a wide gamut   I could make  color profiles  with a colorimeter   and work in those spaces  when needed  .. but  I now  having some doubts  :/

    Xrite/calibrite i1d3 colorimeter. It’s the safe choice. Do not buy the “SL” model unless you know what you are doing, it won’t work by default with HW calibration solitions.

    Calibrite Display Pro HL on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #141485

    Vladimir Finn
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    wow thanks Vincent lot if good info ..   and IM glad that my presumptions were somewhere  in the right path. ( about what you said. about display cal and  picking up a monitor with 9X% +  of dci-p3 and   85+% or more  of adobe rgb …    I honestly don’t need ”for now” more  colors ..

    and IM pretty sure now I will be buying a display calibration device ..

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