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  • #32529

    Kobern
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    My workflow output is 100% sRGB.

    I shoot  raw, work in capture one (that does its high bit rate and working colourspace thing to prevent clipping when editing) then output sRGB.  So while I don’t ever see the extra colours in my raw photos (as my monitor is only sRGB capable around 98 % after calibration)  I do see on my monitor exactly how it’s going to look in sRGB while I’m adjusting things.

    I need a new monitor, my shortlist: Eizo CS2410, CS2420 or BENq SW240 or SW270

    Can anyone help advise? I’m under the impression it’s harder for a 100% adobeRGB monitor to correctly limit the colourspace down and display sRGB and you need a 16bit 3d LUT for this? Am I on the right train of thought or have I got confused?

    So, would I be better off with the Eizo CS2410 which is sRGB only? As it doesn’t need to perform anything whatsoever to limit to sRGB colourspace. i.e for sRGB only and despite being cheaper-  this would give equal or better image accuracy than the other adobeRGB capable monitors?

    I want to stick with EIZO and want a uniform brightness across the panel. I’d like a 100% adobeRGB panel, but only for a fun sneaky look at the extra colours in my image versus the humdrum sRGB images, I’m used to. However, if I’m honest with myself it’s for work and all I need is a good quality, easy on the eyes uniform brightness colour accurate sRGB display for the next few years.

    Also, I cheaped out, against advice on this forum, with an iDisplay Studio. It seems this cant be used with Eizo Colour Navigator 7, and I now wish I bought the iDisplay Pro. Would it work with the BenQ hardware calibration?

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by Kobern.
    #32535

    Vincent
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    Short answer:
    sRGB monitors are cheaper (and NEC EA line cheaper than CS2410), and easier to operate => non color managed apps looks as expected if those apps content is sRGB.

    Long answer:
    SW270 is trash, so out of equation
    SW240  may have a reasonable color uniformity for its price, but HW calibration software is trash and cannot measure propely the monitor unless a series of “hacks/modifications” are preformed.
    CS2420 should be very good although Color Navigatio software may miss the white point, like Benq Software but has a workaround to work out of the box. Check a thread about “CS2731 calibration”
    CS2410 is too expensive for what if offers, I’ll get a NEC EA in 24″ or QHD 27″.
    None of these displays is using a fine tuned LUT3D in its HW calibration using vendor software because that do nit have such HW (only 1d+matrix to simulare srGB) or because vendor software extrapolates data fro such LUT3D with the same data as a 1dlut +matrix would do. Software that allow such fine tune of a LUT3D and load it into monitor using propietary vendor SDK, one made form actual measurements could cost several time the price of monitor.

    I’ll get a cheaper sRGB (Benq PD, Dell U…), or a NEC EA or CS2420 or a CS2731

    #32540

    Kuba Trybowski
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    Why is the SW270C trash?

    #32541

    Vincent
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    Almost all models from SW line from Benq are  a waste of money and time. They use low cost panel + backlight that results in extremely poor uniformity. Add to those faults a malfunctioning HW calibration softwre due to missing proper EDRs for ALL models in SW line (all of them, none is supported) and lack of an alternative generic matrix out of the box for those without proper EDR (like ColorNavigator)

    Such panels without proper quality control  can be delivered as is (pre “-C” line) or uniformity corrected (“C” line) but a typical destroyed contrast (~600:1 from 1000:1 native). If you want SW270C features, save 250-300 euro and get a CS2731.

    Exceptions may be SW240 due to smaller size (less likely to suffer the same huge unifrmity issues) which can be attactive because is the cheapest AdobeRGB widegamut model and SW271C which has the same price and contrast as CS2740 but none of Coloredge features so it’s another no go.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by Vincent.
    #32543

    Kuba Trybowski
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    Thanks. 🙂

    #32544

    Vincent
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    For those who bought one and cannot return it for refund… unifomity/contrast issues cannot be corrected, but wrong measurements from Palette Master Elements can be corrected for an i1d3 although with more effort than CS2731 because spectral series size do not match (RGBLED has more nm samples) or because there is no official EDR from Xrite for that backlight (like all QLED models like SW2700PT) so you must interpolate a community CCSS to 1nm then inject data to a new or existing EDR.

    Take a look on CS2731 thread.

    #32545

    Kobern
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    Many thanks for the info.

    I looked at the recommended NEC 24inch EA (NEC EA245WMi, I assume?), but I think I need to add the cost of  SpectraView, so it doesn’t seem cheaper than the Eizo cs2410 that comes with ColorNavigator 7 included.  One review mentioned the contrast ratio took a hit with uniformity enabled, and the gamma tracking was a bit wonky.  But, correct gamma is essential to me as I edit images of old telescopes and need to show the clarity of the lens by showing dark internals without giving a false impression of haze by lifting shadows while giving a 100% honest image; basically, gamma needs to be pinpoint accurate, and I calibrate to sRGB gamma curve.

    I tend to trust Eizo when it comes to gamma. But, now I’m sounding like an Eizo fanboy.

    I did read about uniformity issues on the BENQ. Uniformity is very important to me, as my work is for web/sales images, so I think I’ll give the budget BENQ ‘s a miss.

    I work at 80cd/m2, so I can easily take the hit from any brightness loss that uniformity gives.

    So, will I be better off sticking to an sRGB monitor vs AdobeRGB Capable in sRGB mode for non-colour managed apps?

    #32546

    Vincent
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    I’ll spend 650 euro in a CS2420 rather than more than 500 euro in a CS2410. It’s too expensive for what ot offers. Use CN to get a sRGB emulation with its LUT+matrix… and who know you may need to simulate DisplayP3 or full native gamut or to simulate how an app will show on a non color managed AMOLED tablet.

    Older CS2420 were reported to be GBLED but newer ones like CS2731 are reported to be WLED PFS, so you’ll need to hack Color Natigator (check CS2731 thread to replace EDR data), or apply a custom a*b* tweak on whitepoint after calibration (CN allows that, Benq PME AFAIK does not) which may be faster.

    #32549

    Kobern
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    Thank you, I tend to agree and it might be useful for the future when all tablets, browsers, os handle wide gamut images correctly

    If I ignored price and never used a gamut above sRGB:

    For sRGB would the CS2410 provide a more accurate image than CS2420 in sRGB emulation? Or would they be equal?

    #32550

    Vincent
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    Depends on CS2410’s WLED backlight (sRGB only : blue + yello phopshor) and native panel bitdepth.
    Some of these yellow phosphors may give you a native green primary sligthly more saturated than sRGB (“outside” sRGB) but unable to render sRGB green/cyan 255 inside its native gamut. Same for red. Several samples on CCSS database, see primaries on a CIE xy plot.
    Also all or almost all sRGB only 24″ 1920px in 16:9 or 16:10 are 6bit + dither + aditional dithering for the N bit LUT for calibration. Close to g2.2 and its neigbours and with proper dithering non color managed gradients should as smooth as an SDR true 10bit panel, but if you want HW cal to a very different gamma (L*) and a very different from native white point (D50) it may exceed what such dither can offer on a 6bit panel.

    #32567

    Kobern
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    Vincent, Thank you so much for your knowledge.

    I’m going for the CS2420 , and now understand the CS2410 makes no sense at just £100 less.

    I like the idea of the extra headroom from the 10bit vs 6bit+dither. I didn’t realise the cs2410 might be 6bit+dither. And I guess with the headroom of wide gamut an emulated sRGB should be a perfect 100% triangle of the sRGB???

    And, I never knew the thing about backlit on sRGB displays might saturate green outside sRGB, but not show cyan and red so well.

    I wonder if that’s why I could never put my finger on it but occasionally sensed a minute green shift in my images when viewed on my old monitor. Despite using a custom camera colour profile and white balancing with an x-rite colour checker, as well as calibrating the monitor to D65 sRGB gamma with displaycal.  I trusted the x-rite and white balance and the images looked fine when checking on other devices, sometimes colder, sometimes warmer and so on, depending on the accuracy of the device used to check.

    I really need to change my old monitor its not even a proper photo monitor, it’s 10 years old with 20,000 hours, its an old Eizo FS2331, I turn off all features inc overdrive and it still does the job for me and seems accurate with delta <1. I never get eyestrain, it’s still fairly uniform and going strong.  BUT I have to look head-on at 90degree to screen if I want perfect accuracy and gamma as it’s a VA panel. It’s time to change now I need it to make money.

    That is why I want to buy another Eizo and I’m ok with paying £550 if it lasts as long, doesn’t give me eyestrain and I have confidence it’s accurate and uniform then I can spend more time working.

    I have attached the calibration reports of my old Eizo FS2331, if you want to look. Maybe I’ve done something wrong, I’m not entirely sure what I’m doing but it seems to calibrate well. The 2nd attachment is a measurement with the X-rite color checker passport patches. It is interesting a CYAN patch is the worst delta, just like you said.

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    #32575

    Vincent
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    Validate using simulation profile sRGB to check cyan-green coverage (vs sRGB patches) but DO NOT use simulation profile as display profile or you’ll loose grey calibration.
    This way you are testing how good it is for Photoshop but not hot good it is for non color managed CAD/CAM soft (as an example)

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Vincent.
    #32577

    Kobern
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    Again, thanks, I didn’t know to use the sRGB simulation profile to check properly. I use Capture One and proof with sRGB recipes.

    I think the attached measurement is now done properly.

    It’s not a low delta as before. But thanks to displaycal it seems pretty good for a 10-year-old monitor with 20k hours.

    Is it accurate? Can you comment and you can be harsh.

    Do you think I’ll notice any improvement going to a CS2420, other than the more stable gamma/viewing angles?

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    #32579

    Vincent
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    Seems ok although grey can be better, look at measured a* swinging from red to green. Since C1 has dither in its output and unless your GPU causes banding when loading a calibration, it may go unnoticed.

    Improvements with CS line is to use a 1xcurve+matrix+bpc created by CN and neutral grey. You can try the same on GPU with DisplayCAL in slow calibration speed to minimize rounding errors in software without dithered outputs to screen (LR, C1 have it).

    For visual whitepoint issues in your FS use visua whitepoint editor.
    Same issue in CN, read CS2731 thread to replace EDR or after ColorNavigator HW cal use its whitepoint editor with DisplayCAL, this should be on that thread too.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Vincent.
    #32667

    Kobern
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    Thanks, I read the CS2731 thread. Shame, as I wanted a one-click foolproof guaranteed accurate solution that I knew I could trust. But I can make the WP adjustments if needed.

    I’m hours away from pulling the trigger on the CS2420 at approx £550. I’ve already ordered a SypderX Pro; it works with CN7 and should be the same as the Eizo EX4, if not quite as good as the iDisplay Pro.

    But, I have some extra doubts:

    I’ve just discovered the Eizo 5 Year warranty, doesn’t apply on the CS line for brightness/colour accuracy- just the basic body & panel 5-year/30,000h warranty and the 6months pixel warranty. https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/warranty/index.html

    Only the CG line has a true 5-year warranty that covers display colour accuracy: “subject to the usage time being limited to 10,000 hours. When used at a color temperature of 5000 – 6500K, a brightness level of at least 120 cd/m2 is warranted.”

    So, what would I gain significantly by upgrading to a CG2420 as opposed to CS2420?

    I already have a hood, CG2420 it has its own calibrator, so I could cancel the SpyderX and save £100. Increase in contrast to 1500:1. What else?

    And, then, I’m doubting again how much more accurate either would be compared to my old trusty FS2331 for sRGB. And, worried I could be throwing £550 or £1050 at nothing if I stay in the sRGB world for the next 5 years.

    Mine, calibrated, has a native contrast of over 2000:1, so I get better blacks than even the CG2420. I don’t like the gamma shift in my VA panel. But could I be spending £1050 just so I can move my head a bit more?

    I’ve attached the very latest sRGB calibration report for my old monitor, after tweaking, this is the best it can do.

    CS2420, CG2420 or stick. What should I do?????????????

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by Kobern.
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