Does This Make Sense?

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  • #3775

    Michael
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    Received my i1 Display Pro today. Tried calibrating to 6500/90/sRGB in DisplayCAL and in iProfiler. To reach 6500, the manual pre-calibration in both programs had me turning the green down some, and the blue down a lot. The result was that everything white had a sickly greenish/yellowish tint. Is this just a weird trait of my monitor?

    In DisplayCAL, I imported the instrument configurations from iProfiler, but only wound up with Generic LCD and Generic Refresh modes – no WLED mode? However, when I clicked to search for monitor corrections, it found a matrix for my monitor. That helped with the greenish issue some.

    Through much experimentation, I discovered that trying to set the white point to 6500 was causing much of the green tint issue. Leaving that set to ‘As Measured’ helped a lot. I wind up with a white point of about 6800, but way less green tint.

    Then I discovered that some of the green tint was being caused by the factory contrast setting being a little too high. Apparently, that was overdriving, well, something. Just lowering it a tiny bit removed more of the tint.

    And finally lowering R, G, and B equally helped further. Maybe the factory settings were overdriving, or oversaturating, causing some of the greenish tint.

    Did I imagine that all the above steps helped with the greenish tint problem I’ve been having, or am I imagining things???

    Now, to figure out what the warning on the calibration screen about not being able to use a 1D lookup table for full screen calibration means…

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    #3787

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    In DisplayCAL, I imported the instrument configurations from iProfiler, but only wound up with Generic LCD and Generic Refresh modes – no WLED mode?

    Look under “Correction” instead.

    Now, to figure out what the warning on the calibration screen about not being able to use a 1D lookup table for full screen calibration means…

    1D tables cannot be used for full color correction, because color spaces are three-dimensional volumes. The 1D calibration can therefore only influence whitepoint, tone curve and gray balance. Full color color correction can only be had with color management, i.e. applications that support ICC profiles (e.g. Photoshop, Gimp, etc).

    #3788

    Michael
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    In DisplayCAL, I imported the instrument configurations from iProfiler, but only wound up with Generic LCD and Generic Refresh modes – no WLED mode?

    Look under “Correction” instead.

    Now, to figure out what the warning on the calibration screen about not being able to use a 1D lookup table for full screen calibration means…

    1D tables cannot be used for full color correction, because color spaces are three-dimensional volumes. The 1D calibration can therefore only influence whitepoint, tone curve and gray balance. Full color color correction can only be had with color management, i.e. applications that support ICC profiles (e.g. Photoshop, Gimp, etc).

    Under “Correction”, I chose WLED mode.  That must be a good match, because the R, G, and B monitor adjustments wound up at 50/50/50, in order to match the pre-calibration sliders in DisplayCAL.

    I thought Windows used ICC profiles.  DisplayCAL creates one, installs it, and activates it in “Color Management” in the Control Panel.

    The only other issue I’m struggling to understand now is why my monitor, which is supposed to be calibrated to 6500°K from the factory tests out at 7300°K in DisplayCAL when I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to “Native”.  Running a quick uncalibrated test yields the same result – about 7300°K.  If I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to 6500°K, whites wind up looking greenish yellow after calibration…

    #3794

    Florian Höch
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    I thought Windows used ICC profiles. DisplayCAL creates one, installs it, and activates it in “Color Management” in the Control Panel.

    Windows doesn’t really make much use of ICC profiles itself especially when it comes to display profiles (apart from rudimentary support in the photo viewer which is very lacking) – it just provides a facility for users to set and color managed applications to query profiles, and this is what the “Color Management” Control Panel is for.

    The only other issue I’m struggling to understand now is why my monitor, which is supposed to be calibrated to 6500°K from the factory tests out at 7300°K in DisplayCAL when I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to “Native”. Running a quick uncalibrated test yields the same result – about 7300°K.

    This may be normal. Just because the monitor has been calibrated at the factory doesn’t mean every instrument will match the factory calibration. Also, correlated  color temperature alone doesn’t tell much about the actual white appearance, because it only relates to changes in the red-blue direction. Only if you assume a specific locus (daylight or blackbody), the color temperature has a defined meaning (and this is what calibration software usually does when setting a whitepoint color temperature target, it uses the chromaticity coordinates of a daylight or blackbody temperature target).

    If I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to 6500°K, whites wind up looking greenish yellow after calibration…

    With the correction set accordingly (WLED)? This may be an issue of visual adaptation. If you’re used to a more blueish whitepoint, then a warmer temperature will initially look yellowish in comparison. Have you tried letting your eyes adapt (several minutes)?

    #3795

    Michael
    Participant
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    I thought Windows used ICC profiles. DisplayCAL creates one, installs it, and activates it in “Color Management” in the Control Panel.

    Windows doesn’t really make much use of ICC profiles itself especially when it comes to display profiles (apart from rudimentary support in the photo viewer which is very lacking) – it just provides a facility for users to set and color managed applications to query profiles, and this is what the “Color Management” Control Panel is for.

    The only other issue I’m struggling to understand now is why my monitor, which is supposed to be calibrated to 6500°K from the factory tests out at 7300°K in DisplayCAL when I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to “Native”. Running a quick uncalibrated test yields the same result – about 7300°K.

    This may be normal. Just because the monitor has been calibrated at the factory doesn’t mean every instrument will match the factory calibration. Also, correlated  color temperature alone doesn’t tell much about the actual white appearance, because it only relates to changes in the red-blue direction. Only if you assume a specific locus (daylight or blackbody), the color temperature has a defined meaning (and this is what calibration software usually does when setting a whitepoint color temperature target, it uses the chromaticity coordinates of a daylight or blackbody temperature target).

    If I tell DisplayCAL to set the white point to 6500°K, whites wind up looking greenish yellow after calibration…

    With the correction set accordingly (WLED)? This may be an issue of visual adaptation. If you’re used to a more blueish whitepoint, then a warmer temperature will initially look yellowish in comparison. Have you tried letting your eyes adapt (several minutes)?

    If Windows doesn’t make use of ICC color profiles, then why does turning the profile created in DisplayCAL on and off affect the colors on my screen?  If Windows wasn’t using the created ICC profile, than I’d expect no change at all on the Windows desktop, or in Windows opened in Explorer, etc.

    I really don’t use any color managed applications.  I just want an overall calibration that covers everything, and I thought that was what I was getting when I calibrated with DisplayCAL.  The calibration by DisplayCAL certainly affect anything and everything on my screen.

    Yes, if I look at the screen long enough, I can somewhat adapt to the greenish/yellowish tint.  Leave the screen two minutes, though, and go back to it, and it looks green to me again.  I thought the point of setting the white point at 6500°K was to make it the color of paper.  What I’m getting is certainly not the color of paper.

    I’m doing all this to learn about color management, so I do appreciate all that you are doing to help.   My apologies for all the confusion and questions on my part.

    #3796

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    If Windows doesn’t make use of ICC color profiles, then why does turning the profile created in DisplayCAL on and off affect the colors on my screen?

    Because the 1D calibration curves do affect everything.

    I really don’t use any color managed applications.

    Why? There are freely available choices for most use cases (Gimp, XnView, MPC-HC…)

    I just want an overall calibration that covers everything

    Calibration only affects whitepoint, tone curve and gray balance. For full gamut correction, you need something more capable (= use color managed applications where color accuracy matters).

    Leave the screen two minutes, though, and go back to it, and it looks green to me again.

    The question you have to ask yourself is: Compared to what? The human visual system is not good at judging absolute color differences, so it always makes comparative assessments. That would suggest that something, probably the room lighting or light bouncing off (colored?) walls, is throwing you off, or your particular instrument is simply not a good match to your display even when using the WLED correction.

    I thought the point of setting the white point at 6500°K was to make it the color of paper.

    No, the color of paper is determined by the color of the paper itself, the illuminant you shine on it (in a dark room a sheet of white paper is black, and white paper under colored light will still be perceived as white due to the way the human visual system works), optical brighteners in the paper (makes it look brighter and more blueish) among other things.

    #3797

    Michael
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    If Windows doesn’t make use of ICC color profiles, then why does turning the profile created in DisplayCAL on and off affect the colors on my screen?

    Because the 1D calibration curves do affect everything.

    I understand.

    I really don’t use any color managed applications.

    Why? There are freely available choices for most use cases (Gimp, XnView, MPC-HC…)

    Mainly because I simply don’t do any photo editing.  I have Corel PhotoPaint if I need a color managed application, but I use my computer mainly for bookkeeping, the internet, and gaming.  Learning anything about PCs is just a way of keeping my brain active.  I enjoy learning.  I don’t need color management.  I just want to learn about it.

    I just want an overall calibration that covers everything

    Calibration only affects whitepoint, tone curve and gray balance. For full gamut correction, you need something more capable (= use color managed applications where color accuracy matters).

    Leave the screen two minutes, though, and go back to it, and it looks green to me again.

    The question you have to ask yourself is: Compared to what? The human visual system is not good at judging absolute color differences, so it always makes comparative assessments. That would suggest that something, probably the room lighting or light bouncing off (colored?) walls, is throwing you off, or your particular instrument is simply not a good match to your display even when using the WLED correction.

    Compared to what?  Compared to absolutely anything else near the computer that is white, including any piece of paper held right next to the monitor!  Trust me, Florian, it’s greenish.  🙂  I think you might have hit the nail on the head – it’s probably the combination of the i1Display Pro and my “cheap” LG monitor.  I probably just need to calibrate using the native white point, and forget about it.

    I thought the point of setting the white point at 6500°K was to make it the color of paper.

    No, the color of paper is determined by the color of the paper itself, the illuminant you shine on it (in a dark room a sheet of white paper is black, and white paper under colored light will still be perceived as white due to the way the human visual system works), optical brighteners in the paper (makes it look brighter and more blueish) among other things.

    I understand.  I think the native white point of the monitor is closest to what most people would considering ‘white’, when compared to other ‘white’ objects held near the screen.  I’ve tried three different calibration programs, and two different colorimeters, and all yield the same results – a greenish tint that no one would consider white by any stretch.  It must be my monitor…

    #3798

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    I don’t need color management. I just want to learn about it.

    I see. It is an interesting topic, that’s for sure.

    I probably just need to calibrate using the native white point, and forget about it.

    That’s what I’d recommend too.

    #3799

    Michael
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    I don’t need color management. I just want to learn about it.

    I see. It is an interesting topic, that’s for sure.

    I probably just need to calibrate using the native white point, and forget about it.

    That’s what I’d recommend too.

    Thanks for your patience.  I’ve learned a lot about this topic, and there is obviously a lot more to learn.

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