Dell UP2716D Calibration Settings

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  • #24617

    InterrobangS
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    Great news today.  My nice new EW3270U has just arrived.

    I’m about to calibrate it.  I have your recommendation of correction. But I am unsure of a setting in the monitor.  There are 5 levels of “gamma”.  The factory setting is at 3.  There is no indication in the manual of what this is exactly.  Would you have any idea?

    And do I calibrate it whilst it is in the monitor’s native profile in System Preferences/Displays/Colour – there is a profile called BenQ EW3270U…. But it looks crazy saturated and contrasty.  Should I not be on a more linear profile when I start the calibration?

    #24618

    Vincent
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    -Measure gamma of each setting, then choose the closest one in order to keep max uique grey levels (less GPU LUT correction). You can do it with Displaycal verification report, HCFR or whatever tool you like.

    -factory/driver icc profiles contaisn no calibration for GPU, just display description. Even if they had, Displaycal wipes out GPU LUT contents when you calibrate.
    Red should look as saturated as Dell UP ***native*** red 255 (not red sRGB mode). Native green is slightly different but saturated too.

    #24619

    InterrobangS
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    Thanks Vincent,

    Ok, I understand. I’ll measure them tomorrow.  But do I measure these with the currently active icc profile installed?

    And same question goes for calibration.  Just to confirm: when you calibrate and profile: It does not matter what your display’s icc profile is in systems preferences/displays/colour.  Correct?

    Is there literature to explain what I am looking at once I finish profiling and I have the results?  How can you confirm the accuracy of the profile> I don’t understand what this means: see attached1

    lastly.  If I am mainly outfitting to web content, then should i be working in gamma 2.2,  Which I understand is what sRGB is designed for.  So when I calibrate/profile should I be selecting gamma 2.2 default or sRGB?

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    #24621

    Vincent
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    Thanks Vincent,

    Ok, I understand. I’ll measure them tomorrow.  But do I measure these with the currently active icc profile installed?

    Driver/Manufacturer ICCprofile has no calibration. It does not matter. Just care about left side measured gamma in HTML report. Choose the clostest OSD setting to your target gamma.
    You can use HCFR too.

    And same question goes for calibration.  Just to confirm: when you calibrate and profile: It does not matter what your display’s icc profile is in systems preferences/displays/colour.  Correct?

    Yes, DisplayCAL wipes out previous GPU LUT calibration.

    Is there literature to explain what I am looking at once I finish profiling and I have the results?  How can you confirm the accuracy of the profile> I don’t understand what this means: see attached1

    Just validate if profile matches calibrated display. last tab : validation/verification. All defaults & unchecked, just choose the test chart & mearure/validation report.

    lastly.  If I am mainly outfitting to web content, then should i be working in gamma 2.2,  Which I understand is what sRGB is designed for.  So when I calibrate/profile should I be selecting gamma 2.2 default or sRGB?

    Your Benq is widegamut. Ouside color managed apps any OSD with native gamut will look oversaturated (most MS Win apps) For those apps your only hope* is to rely on factory gamut emulation (OSD) and a profile for THAT OSD mode and only valid for that OSD mode. Typical trc is 2.2 unless some not color managed video app  where you may want g2.4

    On color managed apps its does not matter at all your calibration TRC target since it will be transformed. In order to minimize truncation errors in this transformation a TRC closest to content will help. Also a TRC close to uncalibrated display TRC minimizes the unique grey levels lost due to calibration.
    “Usually” g2.2 setting in displaycal handles well both requirements

    If you need to use native gamut OSD modes and factory sRGB OSD mode you’ll need 2 profiles and switch between them as you change OSD. On display profile change you may need to close & open color managed app, otherwise color managed app may not notice change

    (*) AMD cards have EDID gamut emulation to sRGB on Windows in some driver option with weird name. Visually it looks sRGB and OK, but I’ve not tested numerically.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Vincent.
    #24642

    InterrobangS
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    Just care about left side measured gamma in HTML report. Choose the clostest OSD setting to your target gamma.
    You can use HCFR too.

    What is HCFR? And how do I know what the closest OSD setting is?  Are you talking about the 1-5 “gamma” settings on my BenQ?  So as you instructed above, I should measure these with DisplayCal and then choose the one which is closest to gamma 2.2?  Is this what you are talking about here?

    And same question goes for calibration.  Just to confirm: when you calibrate and profile: It does not matter what your display’s icc profile is in systems preferences/displays/colour.  Correct?

    Yes, DisplayCAL wipes out previous GPU LUT calibration.

    I am still unsure if we are talking about the same thing.  I am talking about WHILE you are calibrating & profiling.  So obviously, at any point when you are using mac OSX, it is applying an icc profile.  So while you are calibrating/profiling with DisplayCal, OSX is applying an icc profile to your screen (system preferences/displays/colour etc). So surely this is affecting the colours & gamma of the screen whilst using DisplayCal….?  or does DisplayCal get rid of the icc profile BEFORE calibrating/profiling?

    Just validate if profile matches calibrated display. last tab : validation/verification. All defaults & unchecked, just choose the test chart & mearure/validation report.

    OK, I will do this. But I am asking if there is some documentation that talks you through this and what the results actually mean because a lot of this stuff is very high level and I can press the buttons and do the tests, but I do not know how to read the results.

    Your Benq is widegamut.

    I was under the impression that this new screen was NOT widegamut.  I thought that was the reason it was recommended.  Cheap widegamut was the problem with trying to accurately profile my previous screen.  This is only 100% sRGB and 100% Rec707.  But it is only something like 85% Adobe RGB and D3….  So not wide gamut.  It is an sRGB monitor.

    On color managed apps its does not matter at all your calibration TRC target since it will be transformed.

    Just for clarification: Are you talking about, for instance, Davinci Resolve.  Where I set the gamma of my footage, timeline and output to 2.2, which then matches the screen and profile’s gamma of 2.2 and so the results should look accurate.  And would colour managed apps only ignore the TRC?  Will the rest of the icc profile still be used for accurate colours within a colour managed app?

    #24645

    InterrobangS
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    I do not seem to be able to perform a verification… The button at the bottom is greyed out: see attached screenshot 1

    Or: when you can check the box: “show profile information”, after profiling – is this the verification document?  I have attached these results in attachments 2 & 3.  Can you tell me if I am on the right track?  I have no idea what I’m looking at.

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    #24657

    Vincent
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    HCFR is a windows tool that user ArgyllCMS code like DisplayCAL. It’s oriented to TV calibration using just OSD controls so you can verify current gamma fast & easy.
    If you are on macos just use DisplayCAL verification. I said it wrong in my previous message, on HTML report you need to look for gamma value on the right. Left is expected (profile), right is measured. Use a greyscale testchart and you’ll get a plot gamma(Y) vs input (X). All other configuration disabled, but you didn’t (screenshot).
    If verification button is disabled just install default vendor profile from DisplayCAL file menu. It should enable it. If it gets disabled ask Florian.
    So you try gamma 1-5 preset on OSD and get the one taht behaves close to what you want.

    DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS knows how to hande macos color managed desktop. 255 red will be native red when measuring calibration/profiling patches.

    A P3 macbook is a widegamut. A p3 imac is a widegamut. Your display (WLED PFS 95% P3) is a widegamut with a native red much much more saturated than sRGB. Not a sRGB one, not even close by far, native gamut is much bigger but smaller than a photo monitor.
    Benq PDs are the ones with near sRGB gamut… but they are IPS, so 1000:1 contrast.
    Anything with a colorspace much bigger than sRGB is widegamut.
    IDNK what are the reasons you chose an EW3270U but objectively it’s a near P3 WLED FS, big (32″), UHD, huge contrast (VA, 2000-3000:1 good for video), and cheap but with a reasonable chance to good color uniformity. If you want to avoid the “chance” word you need tu play the game in the budget range of a CS2731 or CGs form Eizo.
    It has beed discussed on previous posts. Previous page.

    Regarding colorspace transformations in color management (relying on ICC profiles):
    -you (or an app) setups a ICC profile as display profile. It does not matter actual gamma of display as long as default ICC profile for that display on OS stores its actual value
    -a color managed app reads RGB data from an image with an attached ICC profile or referenced colorspace
    -color management engine transform RGB data on image to another RGB number for display “on the fly”. Numbers can be different, referenced color is the same.
    So actual display TRC does not matter. The closer it is to content colorspace the less chance of truncation o rounding errors in computation if that app does nos use dithering or other solutions like 10bit end to end.

    If you rely on LUT3D like Resolve those transformations are not done “on the fly” to every content colorspace. They are crystalized for A certain colorspace. For example content Rec709 g2.4 to your display profile. App loads LUT3D with that “fixed” correction and video data is sent to display after passing through this LUT3D. Each content colorspace will need its own LUT3D.

    If you want to use grey calibration for desktop at the same time you use a LUT3D like resolve just make sure that you do not apply grey calibration (stored in profile VCGT) twice when you make LUT3D (there is a checkbox in LUT3D maker)

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Vincent.
    #24725

    RenS
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    Hey InterrobangS,

    iam running nearly the same issues on my up2716d with windows. The screen allways looks a bit red(ish) to me. After using a long time the i1profiler i switched now to displaycal and to me the results look much better, but in th i1 software i allway used the gbr led while here in displaycal the corrction is set off. So iam not sure if i should give it a try with gbr led in displaycal.

    Attached you find my latest profile from today, maybe you could try it and give me some feedback.

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    #24742

    InterrobangS
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    Hi RenS.

    If you read through all the posts, you will note that I have replaced this monitor with the BenQ EW3270U.  I just couldn’t deal with the constant issues with profiling this monitor.  I’m way happier with the Ben Q.  Although I will say that viewing too close is an issue.  By the looks of it, you want to be at least 3 feet away.

    #24743

    InterrobangS
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    So you try gamma 1-5 preset on OSD and get the one taht behaves close to what you want.

    I managed to figure this out and have found that setting 3 is gamma 2.23.  4 is Gamma 2.4.  I am wondering now, because I am using the Leaming LUT ProII in my workflow for my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4k, if I should be working in gamma 2.4.  The recommended workspace for his LUT is gamma 2.4.  But then my output is web, which is sRGB and a gamma of 2.2.  Do you have an opinion on this?

    Anything with a colorspace much bigger than sRGB is widegamut.

    Thanks.  Good to know.

    Regarding colorspace transformations in color management (relying on ICC profiles):
    -you (or an app) setups a ICC profile as display profile. It does not matter actual gamma of display as long as default ICC profile for that display on OS stores its actual value
    -a color managed app reads RGB data from an image with an attached ICC profile or referenced colorspace
    -color management engine transform RGB data on image to another RGB number for display “on the fly”. Numbers can be different, referenced color is the same.
    So actual display TRC does not matter. The closer it is to content colorspace the less chance of truncation o rounding errors in computation if that app does nos use dithering or other solutions like 10bit end to end.

    If you rely on LUT3D like Resolve those transformations are not done “on the fly” to every content colorspace. They are crystalized for A certain colorspace. For example content Rec709 g2.4 to your display profile. App loads LUT3D with that “fixed” correction and video data is sent to display after passing through this LUT3D. Each content colorspace will need its own LUT3D.

    If you want to use grey calibration for desktop at the same time you use a LUT3D like resolve just make sure that you do not apply grey calibration (stored in profile VCGT) twice when you make LUT3D (there is a checkbox in LUT3D maker)

    A Lot of this is over my head.  I’ve spent hours researching all this and when you type things I read it several times and make notes and look up things I don’t understand.  But to be honest I feel I’m in way over my head.   I just want to profile my display successfully, and have my footage look good and accurate. How can I tell if my profile and settings were good.  How do I read the results and tell if it has been a good/accurate profile?  Please see attached results and tell me if I am on the right track.

    Lastly, I really don’t understand this popup (see attached).

    Thanks in advance.

    Attachments:
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    #24749

    Vincent
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    So you try gamma 1-5 preset on OSD and get the one taht behaves close to what you want.

    I managed to figure this out and have found that setting 3 is gamma 2.23.  4 is Gamma 2.4.  I am wondering now, because I am using the Leaming LUT ProII in my workflow for my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema 4k, if I should be working in gamma 2.4.  The recommended workspace for his LUT is gamma 2.4.  But then my output is web, which is sRGB and a gamma of 2.2.  Do you have an opinion on this?

    IDNK “Leaming LUT ProII”. But as I said it does not matter choose one OSD preset, profile, then make as many LUT3Ds  as you need: one Rec709 2.2 other 2.4 an preview for each target.

    Choosing a closer OSD preset is just for minimize transformations in limited precision computations like in ICC color managed browsers or GIMP.

    Anything with a colorspace much bigger than sRGB is widegamut.

    Thanks.  Good to know.

    Regarding colorspace transformations in color management (relying on ICC profiles):
    -you (or an app) setups a ICC profile as display profile. It does not matter actual gamma of display as long as default ICC profile for that display on OS stores its actual value
    -a color managed app reads RGB data from an image with an attached ICC profile or referenced colorspace
    -color management engine transform RGB data on image to another RGB number for display “on the fly”. Numbers can be different, referenced color is the same.
    So actual display TRC does not matter. The closer it is to content colorspace the less chance of truncation o rounding errors in computation if that app does nos use dithering or other solutions like 10bit end to end.

    If you rely on LUT3D like Resolve those transformations are not done “on the fly” to every content colorspace. They are crystalized for A certain colorspace. For example content Rec709 g2.4 to your display profile. App loads LUT3D with that “fixed” correction and video data is sent to display after passing through this LUT3D. Each content colorspace will need its own LUT3D.

    If you want to use grey calibration for desktop at the same time you use a LUT3D like resolve just make sure that you do not apply grey calibration (stored in profile VCGT) twice when you make LUT3D (there is a checkbox in LUT3D maker)

    A Lot of this is over my head.  I’ve spent hours researching all this and when you type things I read it several times and make notes and look up things I don’t understand.  But to be honest I feel I’m in way over my head.   I just want to profile my display successfully, and have my footage look good and accurate. How can I tell if my profile and settings were good.  How do I read the results and tell if it has been a good/accurate profile?  Please see attached results and tell me if I am on the right track.

    I think that we discussed this before, but:

    -test if display profile matches its display (general verification, all simulation profile ptions disabled)

    -test LUT3D against source colorspace. Depending on software using LUT3D you can do it directly (like madVR) or through a device link profile (ICC equivalent of actual LUT3D that transforms Rec709 g2.4 -example- to your display colorspace)

    Lastly, I really don’t understand this popup (see attached).

    My previous message, last paragraph

    “If you want to use grey calibration for desktop at the same time you use a LUT3D like resolve just make sure that you do not apply grey calibration (stored in profile VCGT) twice when you make LUT3D (there is a checkbox in LUT3D maker)”

    Grey calibration must be applied only once, choose where. If you wish to keep desktop grey calibration for all other apps, do not embed grey calibration (VCGT) in LUT3D. If you include grey calibration in LUT3D, you should explicitly loose grey calibration on desktop.

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