Combining h/w calibration (Dell DUCCS) and DisplayCAL in Mac M1

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  • #31583

    borez
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    Hi all,

    Am in a weird situation, so here goes.

    Am using a Dell UP2716D and migrated from Windows to Mac M1. Unfortunately a lot of h/w calibration software (Dell DUCCS, Viewsonic Colorbration) have the same X-rite parentage and have yet to support Mac M1.

    Did a hardware calibration in Windows and tried to load the icm profile in Mac Big Sur, but that seriously crashed the system (did a table-based profile, have yet to try a matrix profile).

    Dell has likely discontinued the software, so am a little SOL. Have done the following and wonder if this works. Appreciate your advice! Am using a i1Pro2, and using Adaptive HiRes mode.

    1. Hardware calibrate the monitor using DUCCS in Windows.
    2. Profile the display using DisplayCAL. Everything as measured in the Calibration tab, and profile accordingly.

    Create a ICC profile in Mac, via DisplayCAL. Set native whitepoint and black level in Calibration, and profile accordingly.

    • This topic was modified 1 month ago by borez.

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    #31588

    Vincent
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    Hi all,

    Am in a weird situation, so here goes.

    Am using a Dell UP2716D and migrated from Windows to Mac M1. Unfortunately a lot of h/w calibration software (Dell DUCCS, Viewsonic Colorbration) have the same X-rite parentage and have yet to support Mac M1.

    Did a hardware calibration in Windows and tried to load the icm profile in Mac Big Sur, but that seriously crashed the system (did a table-based profile, have yet to try a matrix profile).

    Dell has likely discontinued the software, so am a little SOL. Have done the following and wonder if this works. Appreciate your advice! Am using a i1Pro2, and using Adaptive HiRes mode.

    1. Hardware calibrate the monitor using DUCCS in Windows.
    2. Profile the display using DisplayCAL. Everything as measured in the Calibration tab, and profile accordingly.

    Seems a good approach, it would be my 1st option too. Then validate with DisplayCAL:
    -using EDRs in DUCCS (U2413- rgphosphor or 95% P3 in Panasonoc VVX WLED PFS, IDNK whcih on is using for UP2*16D)
    -using a custom made 3nm CCSS from some user. beware taht some user made CCSS are wrong , they were created at simulated gamuts, not native. Plot CCSS with display cal “i” button next to CCSS combo to see gamut

    In HTML report check grey range & white point. Sometimes DUCCS (and Benq and asus… ) fail there.

    Create a ICC profile in Mac, via DisplayCAL. Set native whitepoint and black level in Calibration, and profile accordingly.

    Yes, unless HW calibration fails because of oversimplifications in low cost hw, like bad grey range on HTML report validation. If that happens you may consider full grey calibration (GPU with displaycal) on top of your HW calibration.

    #31674

    borez
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    Many thanks for the kind reply. To follow up, I resolved the M1 Big Sur crash – Big Sur M1 only accepts matrix based profiles (and not table-based profiles).

    Did a profile validation using DisplayCAL, and found the calibration deviation errors on the greyscale ramp. Repeated with a profiling on DisplayCAL and got similar results. If my interpretation is right, this is a hardware limitation of the monitor (in its inability to display near-blacks). Or is it a limitation of the spectro?

    Happy to hear your thoughts.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by borez.
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    #31677

    borez
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    Not sure why I couldn’t edit my post… to clarify, I didn’t use the EDR conversions as I am using an i1Pro2 (and not a colorimeter). Correct me if I’m wrong.

    #31681

    Алексей Коробов
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    I used i1Profiler with i1Pro 2 on M1 (my i1Pro 2 has corresponding license), seems to work good enough. Beware, I’ve met some problems in Big Sur CMM (but on Intel platform), use recommended Argyll version.

    Does your display have non-calibrated user mode with full gamut (or Rec.2020 gamut mode, that is actualy most close to that giant)? HW calibration best goal is emulation of standard profiles. If you don’t need it, you may get good result without it. HW calibration can provide better gradients if it does well, 12/14/16-bit hi-res internal LUT and well-made calibration software. But essential BenQ and LG software made me upset, I haven’t tasted Colorbration.

    P.S. This forum allows you to edit post during some minutes only after the first publishing.

    #31686

    Vincent
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    Did a profile validation using DisplayCAL, and found the calibration deviation errors on the greyscale ramp. Repeated with a profiling on DisplayCAL and got similar results.

    If my interpretation is right, this is a hardware limitation of the monitor (in its inability to display near-blacks). Or is it a limitation of the spectro?

    Happy to hear your thoughts.

    Since you can only use 1 curve matrix profile, displaycal reprofilling (without GPU calibration) will get the same results since in such simplified profile, the stored grey response can only have a*b*=0, you cannot capture actual TRC so color managed apps cannot correct it.
    Using full gpu grey calibration with Displaycal (like in any other monitor) should solve these issues correcting monitor grey so you can use the 1TRC (true neutral grey) profile aproximation, since due to these multiple macOS limitations you are forced to use 1TRC matrix profiles.

    They are not caused by monitor alone, they were caused because DUCCS (and Benq Palete master and other sh*t apps from these low cost manufacturers) simplify too many things in calibration. They expect that monitor is almost ok out of the box. The only way to solve these issues is to take more uncalibrated patches, which are fixed and user cannot modify them (20 per gamma ramp channel on latest windows DUCCS). You can choose profilling patches (after calibration) but cannot modify calibration patches.
    Displaycal can tak a lot of these patches lowering calibration speed 12->24->48->96 in an iterative process (user choose how many), hence it can correct it.
    More calibration patches => more calibration time.

    Also an i1Pro2 or 3 is noit a suitable device for measuring displays. It is very slow and has not a very good spectral resolution. UP2*16D use some kind of hybrid between old GB-LED and new PFS/KSF phosphors, plot measured spectral powr distribution at white 255 with argyll Hi res mode and you’ll see it.
    Argyll can use hi res mode (3nm) and more or less capture it but software using Xrite driver will measure at 10nm hence all these detail is lost and an error appears.

    If you wish to calibrate this screen properly, or any other future display, get an i1d3 colorimeter (i1displaypro for example so you can use HW calibration).
    For DIsplayCAL you can use that i1d3 with a custom CCSS created by you with your i1pro2 in high res mode.

    There is no EDR which is an exact match for UP2*16D hybrid led backlight, a custom made CCSS at 3nm canbe the best approach for measuring with i1d3.
    If you want to port that CCSS to DUCCS, there is a lot of work to do but can be done. Check thread about Eizo CS2731 calibration, it was discussed too on Lift Gamma Gain forum but in less detail:

    Confusion calibrating CS2731


    You’ll need to interpolate to 1nm using an spreadsheet or whatever software you want, once you hace CCSS @1nm then use the same steps as Mindas to inject that custom spectral data into older EDRs (make backup copies).

    PS: do not limit monitor to AdobeRGB, use full native gamut. You are using color managed apps. There are colors in ProPhotoRGB or eciRGBv2 os displayP3 images that you monitor can show. Latest windows DUCCS shoudl allow you to use full native gamut, custom gamma and custom white point.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Vincent.

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    #31698

    borez
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    Many thanks all for the insights, much appreciated. It’s always exciting to re-pick up a hobby after so long.


    @Vincent
    : I recalibrated using DUCCS full native gamut at 6500K, gamma 2.2, and it made a big difference in the greyscale ramp, albeit with some specific big dE errors in certain patches.

    Reprofiled again using DisplayCAL (tried XYZLUT),  whitepoint was off albeit with less dE errors. Given these differences, should I attribute this to the spectrometer (and hence requiring an i1D3), or my DisplayCAL settings?

    Many thanks once again.

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    #31704

    Vincent
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    Many thanks all for the insights, much appreciated. It’s always exciting to re-pick up a hobby after so long.



    @Vincent
    : I recalibrated using DUCCS full native gamut at 6500K, gamma 2.2, and it made a big difference in the greyscale ramp, albeit with some specific big dE errors in certain patches.

    Reprofiled again using DisplayCAL (tried XYZLUT),  whitepoint was off albeit with less dE errors. Given these differences, should I attribute this to the spectrometer (and hence requiring an i1D3), or my DisplayCAL settings?

    Many thanks once again.

    Whitepoint errors are caused by DUCCS simplifications, they calibrate first, fix brightness AFTER. Some displays have a whitepoint drift as you raise or lower brightness or contrast controls.
    It can be corrected by GPU calibration afterwards… but macOS may not like to correct whitepoint that way. Perhaps you can predict wp shift asking DUCCS to calibrate to a slighty shifted whitepoint in the opposite direction.

    Also you are nor reprofilling but calibrating in GPU so IDNK how bad it was from DUCCS, also your calibration was done in “fast speed” (12 or 24 patches) which may not be enough to your display. A colorimeter helps here, 96 patches in interative process “slow speed” is about 30min, on an i1Pro2 it will take more time, a lot.

    PS: I would validate profile against itself rather than try to simulate through color management (do not use simulation profile until you are acustomished to fix DUCCS & macOS issueswith DisplayCAL)

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