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I’m trying to generate a madVR 3DLUT using the standalone DisplayCAL-3DLUT-maker (not inside DisplayCAL), but I’m unsure which settings are correct for my situation.
I’m using an ICC profile that I downloaded from the internet for the same monitor model it’s a wide gamut monitor with ~141% sRGB volume, and I have a few questions:
- For tone curve and rendering intent — should I follow the “Default rendering intent” and gamma described in the ICC profile, or the source format? For example, if the ICC profile uses gamma 2.2 but the source is Rec.709, should the tone curve be gamma 2.2 (matching ICC) or Rec.1886 (matching the source)?
- Regarding gamma mode — should I use relative or absolute, and should black output offset be 0% or 100% to best preserve the ICC profile’s intended rendering?
- Should VCGT be enabled/checked when generating the 3DLUT in this standalone tool?
- Are there any reliable test patterns or methods to evaluate which ICC profile is actually the most accurate without a colorimeter?
Any clarification or recommended settings for this workflow would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Not much use in making a 3D LUT if you don’t even have a colorimeter.
Just provide MadVR with the primaries of your display. You can read them from the profile or EDID (whichever you trust more).
Not much use in making a 3D LUT if you don’t even have a colorimeter.
It depends on how much common is that “for particular model there may be typical grey deviations to some colors” and if 3rd party icc profile solves them. This implies embeding VCGT on such LUT3D.
So in
scenario A) widegamut, neutral greyscale, nominal gamma close to whetever EDID reports.
Action) Then use your approach or use a LUT3D from synthetic profile (to avoid multiple configurations and only use one lut3D or another once you can measure)scenario B) widegamut, visble greyscale errors non color managed, 3rd party profiles “seems” to solve it in greyscale.
Action) use LUT3Dscenario C) widegamut, visble greyscale errors non color managed, 3rd party profiles “does not seem” to solve it in greyscale.
Bad luck, need a colorimeter. Maybe toying with Windows Calibration, then dumping VCGT then create synth profile, then append VCGT to LUT3D, but a guided step by step help is out of scope.Regarding message #1, <<USUALLY>> for an IPS with limited contrast (800-1500:1) and dim room
Rec709, BOO 100%, relative 2.4, Apply VCGT calibration (from 3rd party profile), rel or abs colorimetric, video levels 16-235IDNK what are your ambient light conditions to want gamma 2.2 in madVR. Maybe, why not.
If he downloaded it from the internet it could be:
-vendor/EDID profile (no VCGT, ideal neutral grey TRC) it’s nt clear if this is what he has right now, on screenshot, because it should be bundled with display driver)
-some user made calibration (likely to had VCGT, like those from tftcentral or webs like that)
-some rtings.com sh1t with no VCGT and 3xTRC, likely non equal TRCs (this one will fall into that category, no VCGT, but in this case LUT3D is needed to correct grayscale with TRC info)Since OP does not clarify it could be any of the three. IDNK if screnshot shows the profile he downloaded from vendor driver or sme calibration ICC by some display review web.
Thank you for your replys, I have three profiles all made on different units of the same monitor model, the first profile contains VCGT, I’m using this http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png in madVR video using PotPlayer after applying the LUTs, the first profile appears the most neutral while the second shows a green tint, the third profile a blue tint, however, I prefer the OSD brightness settings of the second profile (100 nits) over the first one (200 nits). So right now I’m combining the first profile’s LUT and OSD RGB settings with the second profile’s OSD brightness setting, another detail is that madVR identifies the display as BT.2020.
I get different results between relative and absolute colorimetrics, each profile contain a default rendering intentlike the first profile Default rendering intent Perceptualshoudn’t that be used instead? for example mpv has mpv icc profile autosetting which uses that information to generate lut file based on the ICC!
For tone curve BOO 100% makes shadows darker, same for relative combining both reults in less shadow details, also I tried Rec.1886 which results in gamma 2.4 absolute BOO 0% and it looks good but not sure if it’s the correct choice, sliding BOO or changing to relative automatically switch from gamma Rec.1886 to custom, same for other gammas is custom the correct choice here?
Applying VCG makes the image brighter so using gamma 2.4 makes it even brighter don’t know if it’s also correct!
Please let me know if you need more informations that can help you help me better, thanks again.
First profile (Hardware Unboxed) :
Size 968420 Bytes (945.72 KiB) Preferred CMM 0x6172676C 'argl' ArgyllCMS ICC version 2.2 Profile class Display device profile Color model RGB Profile connection space (PCS) XYZ Created 2022-06-13 16:14:07 Platform Microsoft Is embedded No Can be used independently Yes Device Manufacturer 0x0000541C GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Model 0x00002718 Media attributes Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color Default rendering intent Perceptual PCS illuminant XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585, CCT 5000K) Creator 0x4443414C 'DCAL' DisplayCAL Checksum 0x0C2CE5CE4899FCA3E6A0B8C6B831B397 Checksum OK Yes Description (ASCII) M27Q P #3 2022-06-13 16-04 0.3127x 0.329y sRGB F-S XYZLUT+MTX Copyright No copyright. Created with DisplayCAL 3.8.9.3 and ArgyllCMS 2.1.2 Device manufacturer name (ASCII) GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Device model name (ASCII) M27Q P Luminance 200.21 cd/m² Media white point Is illuminant Yes Illuminant-relative XYZ 94.92 100.00 108.83 (xy 0.3125 0.3292) Illuminant-relative CCT 6512K ΔE 2000 to daylight locus 0.25 ΔE 2000 to blackbody locus 4.84 Media black point Illuminant-relative XYZ 0.1114 0.1175 0.1266 (xy 0.3133 0.3305) Illuminant-relative CCT 6460K ΔE 2000 to daylight locus 0.62 ΔE 2000 to blackbody locus 5.14 Absolute to media relative transform Bradford (ICC recommendation) Matrix 0.8951 0.2664 -0.1614 -0.7502 1.7135 0.0367 0.0389 -0.0685 1.0296 Video card gamma table Bitdepth 16 Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 256 Channel 1 gamma at 50% input 1.01 Channel 1 minimum 0.0000% Channel 1 maximum 98.77% Channel 1 unique values 256 @ 8 Bit Channel 1 is linear No Channel 2 gamma at 50% input 1.01 Channel 2 minimum 0.0000% Channel 2 maximum 99.86% Channel 2 unique values 256 @ 8 Bit Channel 2 is linear No Channel 3 gamma at 50% input 1.00 Channel 3 minimum 0.0000% Channel 3 maximum 99.21% Channel 3 unique values 256 @ 8 Bit Channel 3 is linear No Device to PCS: Intent 0 Matrix 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000 Input Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 2049 Color Look Up Table Grid Steps 33 Entries 35937 Output Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 2 Red matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 47.35 21.16 0.29 (xy 0.6882 0.3076) PCS-relative XYZ 50.14 22.38 0.10 (xy 0.6904 0.3082) Green matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 28.39 71.24 6.85 (xy 0.2666 0.6691) PCS-relative XYZ 31.09 71.27 5.96 (xy 0.2871 0.6579) Blue matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 19.19 7.59 101.69 (xy 0.1494 0.0591) PCS-relative XYZ 15.19 6.36 76.43 (xy 0.1550 0.0649) Red tone response curve Number of entries 256 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Green tone response curve Number of entries 256 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Blue tone response curve Number of entries 256 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Device to PCS: Intent 1 Matrix 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000 Input Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 2049 Color Look Up Table Grid Steps 33 Entries 35937 Output Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 2 PCS to device: Intent 1 Matrix 4.7569 -1.9712 -0.7461 -1.4673 3.3766 0.0462 0.1380 -0.2310 2.5432 Input Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 4096 Color Look Up Table Grid Steps 33 Entries 35937 Output Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 256 PCS to device: Intent 0 Matrix 4.7695 -1.9794 -0.7508 -1.4763 3.3870 0.0442 0.1345 -0.2331 2.5499 Input Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 4096 Color Look Up Table Grid Steps 33 Entries 35937 Output Table Channels 3 Number of entries per channel 256 Characterization target [23257 Bytes] Characterization device values [23257 Bytes] Characterization measurement values [23257 Bytes] Chromaticity (illuminant-relative) Channel 1 (R) xy 0.6882 0.3076 Channel 2 (G) xy 0.2666 0.6691 Channel 3 (B) xy 0.1494 0.0591 Make and model Manufacturer 0x1C54 GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Model 0x2718 Metadata prefix EDID_ CMF_ DATA_ MEASUREMENT_ OPENICC_ MAPPING_ ACCURACY_ GAMUT_ EDID_mnft GBT EDID_mnft_id 7252 EDID_model_id 10008 EDID_date 2021-T48 EDID_red_x 0.685546875 EDID_red_y 0.30859375 EDID_green_x 0.2646484375 EDID_green_y 0.66796875 EDID_blue_x 0.150390625 EDID_blue_y 0.0576171875 EDID_white_x 0.3134765625 EDID_white_y 0.3291015625 EDID_manufacturer GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. EDID_gamma 2.2 EDID_model M27Q P EDID_serial 21483B000127 EDID_md5 b996730acf7800a315731ec786c28ff7 CMF_binary DisplayCAL CMF_version 3.8.9.3 CMF_product DisplayCAL License Public Domain Quality high OPENICC_automatic_generated 0 DATA_source calib MEASUREMENT_device i1 displaypro, colormunki display MAPPING_device_id xrandr-GIGA-BYTE TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.-M27Q P-21483B000127 ACCURACY_dE76_avg 0.064494 ACCURACY_dE76_max 1.103100 ACCURACY_dE76_rms 0.153430 GAMUT_volume 1.41511018917 GAMUT_coverage(dci-p3) 0.9449 GAMUT_coverage(srgb) 0.9981 GAMUT_coverage(adobe-rgb) 0.8573
Second Profile (Rtings) :
Size 6960 Bytes (6.80 KiB) Preferred CMM 0x41444245 'ADBE' Adobe ICC version 2.0 Profile class Display device profile Color model RGB Profile connection space (PCS) XYZ Created 2023-08-08 14:55:21 Platform Microsoft Is embedded No Can be used independently Yes Device Manufacturer 0x00000000 Model 0x00000000 Media attributes Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color Default rendering intent ICC-absolute colorimetric PCS illuminant XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585, CCT 5000K) Creator 0x5350434C 'SPCL' Checksum 0x6450F3B6EB916A3DA6098BB0008F9405 Checksum OK Yes Copyright SpectraCal Inc, 2023 Device manufacturer name (ASCII) SpectraCal LLC Device model name (ASCII) M27Q P Media white point Is illuminant Yes Illuminant-relative XYZ 96.50 100.00 108.68 (xy 0.3162 0.3277) Illuminant-relative CCT 6323K ΔE 2000 to daylight locus 3.73 ΔE 2000 to blackbody locus 1.14 PCS-relative XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585) PCS-relative CCT 5000K Media black point Illuminant-relative XYZ 0.1153 0.1136 0.2706 (xy 0.2307 0.2274) PCS-relative XYZ 0.1083 0.1114 0.2045 (xy 0.2554 0.2626) PCS-relative CCT 18588K Red tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function ≈ Gamma 2.22 100% (Δ 2.16%) Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Green tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function ≈ Gamma 2.19 100% (Δ 3.95%) Minimum Y 0.0275 Maximum Y 100.00 Blue tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function Unknown Minimum Y 0.1114 Maximum Y 100.00 Red matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 51.04 22.73 0.24 (xy 0.6897 0.3071) PCS-relative XYZ 53.24 23.69 0.06 (xy 0.6915 0.3077) Green matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 26.85 70.14 7.92 (xy 0.2559 0.6685) PCS-relative XYZ 28.59 70.41 6.82 (xy 0.2702 0.6654) Blue matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 18.60 7.13 100.52 (xy 0.1473 0.0565) PCS-relative XYZ 14.59 5.90 75.61 (xy 0.1518 0.0614) Chromatic adaptation transform Bradford (ICC recommendation) Matrix 1.0359 0.0164 -0.0477 0.0198 0.9980 -0.0158 -0.0094 0.0157 0.7529 Description (ASCII) M27Q P external
Generic profile (Manufacturer):
Size 6940 Bytes (6.78 KiB) Preferred CMM 0x41444245 'ADBE' Adobe ICC version 2.1 Profile class Display device profile Color model RGB Profile connection space (PCS) XYZ Created 2022-05-18 10:06:08 Platform Microsoft Is embedded No Can be used independently Yes Device Manufacturer 0x47425400 Model 0x73524742 'sRGB' Media attributes Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color Default rendering intent Perceptual PCS illuminant XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585, CCT 5000K) Creator 0x47425420 'GBT ' Checksum 0x2DB57FAF7D816A44B00E138F97B624FE Checksum OK Yes Copyright Copyright (c) 2022 GIGABYTE Description (ASCII) GIGABYTE M27Q P Media white point Is illuminant Yes Illuminant-relative XYZ 96.42 100.00 82.49 (xy 0.3457 0.3585) Illuminant-relative CCT 5000K ΔE 2000 to daylight locus 0.08 ΔE 2000 to blackbody locus 4.73 Media black point Illuminant-relative XYZ 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 Red matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 54.44 24.52 0.40 (xy 0.6860 0.3090) PCS-relative XYZ 54.44 24.52 0.40 (xy 0.6860 0.3090) Green matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 27.76 69.98 7.02 (xy 0.2650 0.6680) PCS-relative XYZ 27.76 69.98 7.02 (xy 0.2650 0.6680) Blue matrix column Illuminant-relative XYZ 14.22 5.50 75.07 (xy 0.1500 0.0580) PCS-relative XYZ 14.22 5.50 75.07 (xy 0.1500 0.0580) Device manufacturer name (ASCII) https://www.gigabyte.com Device model name (ASCII) GIGABYTE M27Q P Technology Active matrix display Red tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Green tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00 Blue tone response curve Number of entries 1024 Transfer function sRGB Minimum Y 0.0000 Maximum Y 100.00
Calibrite Display Pro HL on Amazon
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.those numbers say nothing. what matters is
-resulting calibration = TRC (if realistic) fro the display those profiles were made for
-overall amount of correction in VCGT
-if that VCGT is good for your display (that needs a colorimeter or non color managed visual evaluation).These 2 set of curves can be seen on display profile information, upper combo tab. Instead of gamut choose calibration curves or TRC.
Hence the neeed to attach profiles or trc+vcgt images, not those meaningless numbers (for your particular issue).- Gigabyte_M27Q_P_Calibrated_HUB.icm – sRGB TRC + VCGT that has very subtle color changes + 3D LUT that’s very close to unity (useless).
- rtings-icc-profile.icm – 2.18 avg gamma TRC with color correction. Green primary differs from previous profile.
- m27qp.icm – sRGB TRC, no VCGT.
As video doesn’t use sRGB, I would just provide madVR with the primaries and optionally adjust gamma if needed.
rtings has a sligt color cast on greys, not caused by WP (separate TRCs) but by G uneveness
Gigabyte_M27Q_P_Calibrated_HUB.icm has a slight color cast uncalibrated and uneven grey postcalibration, likely caused by to few greyscale calibration measurements on a low QC display. These people that use “fast” calibration + XYZLUT profiles do not really know what are they doing.
QC variation is to high to rely on 3rd party profile. Windows calibration (visual) or leave your display greyscale as is if it looks ok uncalibrated. Then use primaries in madVR for basic color correction as DaniJ said
I have Ex, Gx, Bx, Wx from EDID but in madVR yCMS there are Y/X, x/Y, y/Z, how to map EDID vlaues to yCMS?
How to extract the grayscale from the EDID?
Another issue whenever I hit apply in madVR calibrate this display by using yCMS a popup asks to download yCMS but when I hit ok donwloading yCMS failed!
Ups, didn’t expect it needs to download yCMS.
The following setting will generate a LUT that keeps grey unmodified while correcting only the colors using the primaries.
I did some tests with the profiles you gave me and I get the same results as setting: this display is already calibrated to the following primaries: DCI-P3. I attached screenshots with tests I did with the three original profiles. Surprisingly, the Generic profile looked better to me while having lifted blue. I really like the OSD settings and the look of Rtings, I don’t know if it’s too wrong.
Can you please check and give me your opinion? I open the screenshots in Paint to get exact look of video playback.
