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Hello everyone.
I’m having trouble with my EIZO monitor when using Davinci and other editing apps like Photoshop and Capture One.
I’m using CS2400S and calibrating my monitor with Colornavigator 7 using i1d3 display pro to rec709 gamma 2.4 for both image and video editing.Specifically, my black is lifted when exporting stills (both from export still or using deliver page to export a jpeg image) from Davinci to Photoshop or Capture One. This only happens when I set working color space in Photoshop to some standard icc profile like srgb iec61966 2.1.
When I set the working color space to my calibrated icc profile, essentially disabling Photoshop’s color management, I get a match between Davinci, Photoshop, and web browsers. So far, only Davinci’s clean feed and browsers visually match.
I tried generating a SMPTE color bars and export it as still. While the color readouts are correct, Photoshop and Capture One show lifted black but no crushed whiteI have tested the clean feed with DisplayCal connected to Davinci calibration function, the verification measurements mostly matches what Colornavigator reports.
Please correct me if i’m wrong, EIZO is calibrated with a LUT stored in the monitor and an icc profile to inform apps of its calibration state. Davinci’s clean feed ignore Windows’ color management. So if Photoshop is color managed, and the generated icc profile is behaving correctly, both should match.
I tried assigning a rec709 icc color profile to the stills from Davinci in case they aren’t tagged. While they then shows up correctly after assigned in Photoshop, still lifted in Capture One, and have crushed black in browsers.Did I do something wrong with calibration and/or color management?
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Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.sRGB TRC is not 2.2 so it seems that you are exporting untagged images (likely to be rendered as Rec709 2.4).
Build a synth profile Rec709 gamma 2.2 and gamma 2.4 (or you can use “elle”s prebuilt profiles, google “elles sRGB profiles”). Install them. Then start photoshop and try to assign them to untagged image.sRGB TRC is not 2.2 so it seems that you are exporting untagged images (likely to be rendered as Rec709 2.4).
Build a synth profile Rec709 gamma 2.2 and gamma 2.4 (or you can use “elle”s prebuilt profiles, google “elles sRGB profiles”). Install them. Then start photoshop and try to assign them to untagged image.Hi Vincent
Thanks for your suggestion, I tried your method and the result is visually the same as assigning or converting to srgb iec61966 2.1.
I also have this problem with images from my DSLR. They look a lot lifted even when correctly tagged with srgb iec61966 2.1 while the same image appear with more contrast when I import the jpeg into davinci.
I noticed in Colornavigator 7, there’s an option to calibrate to default gamma value called “sRGB”. So I tried calibrating to that but it still show lifted black. Not sure if I can explain myself clearly enough here. Basically, the image with the sRGB gamma calibration shows on browser with a contrast level about as much as the gamma 2.4 calibration in Photoshop. Of course it appears even more lifted in Photoshop with the sRGB gamma cal. Although doing this matches browsers, Photoshop, and Resolve. Capture One however show a lot of lifted up black comparing to the others.Bit of side question, I downloaded and assigned this profile, not sure if it’s correctly made , the stills show up correctly in Capture One, Photoshop, and windows Photo, no issue when importing that still back to Resolve. But they appear extremely crushed on Firefox or Chrome. I suspect that despite having turned of force sRGB on both browsers, they somehow still force it. So untaggeed stills appear “correctly” and tagged stills with rec709 appear crushed, would that be true?
I’m using DisplayCal profile loader to enforce the icc profile but there isn’t much different when I turn it on or off.
Sorry for the slightly out of topic question.
Edit: correct myself a bit about after calibrating to sRGB gamma
sRGB TRC is not 2.2 so it seems that you are exporting untagged images (likely to be rendered as Rec709 2.4).
Build a synth profile Rec709 gamma 2.2 and gamma 2.4 (or you can use “elle”s prebuilt profiles, google “elles sRGB profiles”). Install them. Then start photoshop and try to assign them to untagged image.Hi Vincent
Thanks for your suggestion, I tried your method and the result is visually the same as assigning or converting to srgb iec61966 2.1.
They can’t be the same, by definition. A white to black linear gradient show this better
sRGB TRC is not 2.2 so it seems that you are exporting untagged images (likely to be rendered as Rec709 2.4).
Build a synth profile Rec709 gamma 2.2 and gamma 2.4 (or you can use “elle”s prebuilt profiles, google “elles sRGB profiles”). Install them. Then start photoshop and try to assign them to untagged image.Hi Vincent
Thanks for your suggestion, I tried your method and the result is visually the same as assigning or converting to srgb iec61966 2.1.
They can’t be the same, by definition. A white to black linear gradient show this better
My bad, I don’t mean exactly the same, but rather looking about the same, as in still lifted in the black maybe slightly less so. .
I tried something maybe not exactly sound, but help showing my point. I used the interactive display adjustment function in DisplayCal to get the sensor measuring. Let’s assume my EDR is good enough. For context, Colornavigator reports that my black can only get as low as 0.09 nits.
I dropped the SMPTE bars into Photoshop while still using the rec709 calibration profile.
I first assigned the color space to the rec709 profile I downloaded and measured the black, it shows 0.09, so far so good.
I then went ahead to measure the black and the grey bars while assigning either srgb iec or srgb-elle-v4-g22. They report the same value, about 0.11 for black and 13.6 for grey bar (it’s 11.3 if the assigned profile is rec709, same as measured in Davinci).
The same image in Capture One (tagged with either profile) shows 0.29 black, 13.6 grey and no problem in white level or white balance measured with white patch.I’m not sure if this is expected behavior, but more info into the problem I guess.
CN by default sets black in ICC profile to idean infinite contrast RGB 0 -> 0nit (in ICC profile), same as DisplayCAL when you enable black point compensation in “profile” tab (infinite fake contrast in profile). On 1000:1 you wan’t this as default.
Blacks are the same due to BPC in Adobe even if Color navigator was set to store actual black on ICC porfile.
0.1 at 100 nits is expected 1000:1. Assigning profiles with different TRC changes brightness of a RGB grey value (non black non white), hence “by definition”.
CaptureOne going to 0.30nit on black is ~300:1 which seems linked to glossy printer profile simulation active. Check View and then proof submenu
CN by default sets black in ICC profile to idean infinite contrast RGB 0 -> 0nit (in ICC profile), same as DisplayCAL when you enable black point compensation in “profile” tab (infinite fake contrast in profile). On 1000:1 you wan’t this as default.
Blacks are the same due to BPC in Adobe even if Color navigator was set to store actual black on ICC porfile.
0.1 at 100 nits is expected 1000:1. Assigning profiles with different TRC changes brightness of a RGB grey value (non black non white), hence “by definition”.
CaptureOne going to 0.30nit on black is ~300:1 which seems linked to glossy printer profile simulation active. Check View and then proof submenu
Thank you so much for your patience, I’m not quite knowledgeble in color management and been trying to get a hold of it. I changed the proof profile in Capture One to either my monitor’s icc or itu r bt709 and the SMPTE test chart matches in softwares now.
I also found out just now that proof profile also changes the color data of the file, as in color readout changes with changing the profile. And for some reason Capture One clamps black at 3,3,3 RGB.Although the contrast still doesn’t match with browsers, it’s like the image is a bit murkier in both Photoshop and Capture One.
I created an sRGB gamma 2.2 calibration for this one.
Using Firefox with an image from my DSLR, exported from Capture One so it’s tagged with srgb iec by default.
The image matches in Photoshop and Capture One but the contrast increases noticeably when dropped into Firefox (or Chrome).
Funny thing is, if I assign a rec709 profile to the image in Photoshop, it now matches with browsers even though I’m using the sRGB calibration slot.
I also tried changing thhe system default icc profile in windows’ color management to the sRGB calibration and restart the browsers each time but it doesn’t do much.Untagged images may be render non color managed on browsers.
Photoshop behavior with 1000:1, tagged images and CN7 set (by default) to store fake infinite contrast is your trusted render. Whatever it shows, it is the way to render it and if it does not suit what you expect, you exproted the image in a wrong way on another image editor.
Untagged images or forced conversion to working colorspace on tagged images may trick you, but this should be disabled or at least when Photoshop ask on opening choose what suits you better. Color settings, ask when missing, ask when pasting but preserve (and do not ask) for tagged images = (a AdobeRGB TIFF will be opened as AdobeRGB tiff regardless of your working space).
Your issues on Photopshop vs Resolve seems related to exporting misconfigurations.For C1, explained above.
@LongDoan In Firefox you can try to enable full color-management (not only for tagged images) and you can manually specify your ICC profile to Firefox just in case.
To do so:
- In the address bar enter about:config, accept the warning.
- Search for gfx.color_management.mode and set it to 1 for Full color management (2 is only for tagged images), by clicking on the pencil icon.
- Search for gfx.color_management.display_profile and enter the exact path to your ICC profile file, you can try to skip this step and see if it works, if nothing changes than try this too.
After this check if the problem is fixed. More information: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/3.5/ICC_color_correction_in_Firefox.
Also note that sRGB gamma (sRGB IEC61966-2.1) is different than pure power Gamma 2.2 (which is the most used one, and I think better suited for newer/non-CRT displays). The sRGB piecewise function gamma is slightly lifted in the shadows, so make sure that you use a Gamma 2.2 ICC profile for your display if it’s hardware calibrated to Gamma 2.2, and sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ICC profile if it’s calibrated to sRGB gamma (or just use your measured ICC profile for the best accuracy, like you mentioned above). Also it is worth noting that un-tagged pictures may (and I think will) default to the sRGB piecewise function gamma,
If all your color-critical work applications are color-managed (like Firefox and Photoshop), you can try to disable Windows Automatic Color Management and see if you get more consistent results. If you still want Windows ACM enabled (because you want all apps to be consistent) then I think there is a way to exclude the ones that are color-managed (they don’t need it because they are already color-managed), I think it was right-click properties of the app’s exe and it was called use legacy ICC profiles (I’m not sure), but make sure you configure it directly for the application executable not for the launcher (Firefox has a launcher for example on the desktop, so don’t do it there). Please recheck this last paragraph as I’m not 100% sure if everything I typed was correct. 😁
@LongDoan In Firefox you can try to enable full color-management (not only for tagged images) and you can manually specify your ICC profile to Firefox just in case.
To do so:
- In the address bar enter about:config, accept the warning.
- Search for gfx.color_management.mode and set it to 1 for Full color management (2 is only for tagged images), by clicking on the pencil icon.
- Search for gfx.color_management.display_profile and enter the exact path to your ICC profile file, you can try to skip this step and see if it works, if nothing changes than try this too.
After this check if the problem is fixed. More information: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/3.5/ICC_color_correction_in_Firefox.
Also note that sRGB gamma (sRGB IEC61966-2.1) is different than pure power Gamma 2.2 (which is the most used one, and I think better suited for newer/non-CRT displays). The sRGB piecewise function gamma is slightly lifted in the shadows, so make sure that you use a Gamma 2.2 ICC profile for your display if it’s hardware calibrated to Gamma 2.2, and sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ICC profile if it’s calibrated to sRGB gamma. Also it is worth noting that un-tagged pictures may (and I think will) default to the sRGB piecewise function gamma,
If all your color-critical work applications are color-managed (like Firefox and Photoshop), you can try to disable Windows Automatic Color Management and see if you get more consistent results. If you still want Windows ACM enabled (because you want all apps to be consistent) then I think there is a way to exclude the ones that are color-managed (they don’t need it because they are already color-managed), I think it was right-click properties of the app’s exe and it was called use legacy ICC profiles (I’m not sure), but make sure you configure it directly for the application executable not for the launcher (Firefox has a launcher for example on the desktop, so don’t do it there). Please recheck this last paragraph as I’m not 100% sure if everything I typed was correct.
Thank you for the detailed answer.
I got the mismatch problem between 3 softwares resolved. I only have Firefox and Photoshop mismatch when it comes to srgb iec tagged images now.For example, if I open a rec709 gamma 2.4 still in Photoshop and tag it as rec709, it matches Davinci, I then open that same image in Firefox. If I tag the still as rec709, or tag as rec709 and then convert to srgb then open it with Firefox, it appears crushed. The still matches in Firefox only when I tag it as srgb in Photoshop first or open it untagged.
Another behavior I noticed is, let’s say I have a RAW photo from a camera in C1. I edit it and then export it tagged with sRGB IEC. It matches between C1 and Photoshop as long as I set the proof profile right in C1. But it will always appear with lower blackpoint. I have tried exporting the image tagged with a gamma 2.2 profile, or calibrating my monitor to gamma sRGB, same behavior. Always bit more contrast on Firefox, or Chrome.
I uploaded the image to google drive and view it with my phone and my macbook (to see if another user with their device would see the same problem) I see the image with a bit more contrast, not lifted like on my EIZO. So I suspect that I might have done something wrong with color management on my PC. (or I got it right and other devices are wrong, I’m not sure)I checked the config and it said my color management was set to “2”. I changed it to 1 but nothing changes. I can’t find the exclusion option you said tho. Although I have tried the exception rule in Displaycal profile loader, got the same result.
Do you use Windows 11? If not, then ignore the ACM stuff – last paragraph of my comment.
If you still want Windows ACM enabled (because you want all apps to be consistent)…
Just to clarify, for other readers, at the moment of writing this Windows ACM will use sRGB Gamma instead of Gamma 2.2, and I don’t know if there’s a way to change that.
Did you try to specify your ICC profile in Firefox?
Just to clarify, for other readers, at the moment of writing this Windows ACM will use sRGB Gamma instead of Gamma 2.2, and I don’t know if there’s a way to change that.Never mind my comment is misleading, and I don’t know if that’s true. And if it’s true, I guess it will be only for non-color managed apps. I can’t delete it or edit it unfortunately.
