Windows – Auto Color Management (ACM)

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  • #37338

    zunderholz
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    https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/auto-color-management/

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wcs/display-calibration-mhc

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3darticles/high-dynamic-range

    There is a new feature in Windows called Auto Color Mangement or ACM. I’ve linked the main articles, and it seems there are implications for ICC profiles, maybe new tags. It looks like they’re preparing to have a proper wide-gamut desktop and want to clean up any of the technical issues. Basically you should be able to have you display setup in its wide gamut mode and any content that is srgb will be automatically mapped to the gamut of your display so it is not overs-aturated.  Windows will assume any app that is not color managed is srgb, from what I’m understanding. Color managed apps will have to do a little bit of work to fit into this new model.

    I figured there are people on this forum dealing with applications where understanding all of this will be important, so I hope the links I shared are helpful.

    #37347

    Vincent
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    Maybe I lack some deatils but I see a potential source of errors even worse than Apple CMM:

    Automatic system color management necessarily impacts the way that existing ICC profile-based apps behave, since they’re performing many actions themselves that are now handled by the OS. Windows applies the default behavior (explained in the new documentation) to ICC profile-based apps. That ensures that those apps don’t have incorrect behavior. However, without further work, they won’t get access to any of the extended color capabilities.

    In particular, by default your ICC profile-based app is restricted to the sRGB gamut, even if the monitor is actually wider gamut. Windows also provides an ICC compatibility helper that can give your ICC app access to the display’s entire gamut. For more info, see the Display ICC profile compatibility helper section in this topic.

    First of all relying to OS for ALL the apps has te potential issue of profile type limitation, like the ones using macOS CMM, but if we want desktop color management is something “necessary”.

    Second, new default behavior looks stupid IMHO. It would be better that, at least in transition period, user can add some apps to a list where OS will do nothing and all will be done by apps CMM.
    Also if OS CMM is faulty or limited, like macOS, users may want to rely on tested & reliable CMM for some apps, like Adobe’s ACE w/wo BPC.
    Maybe I’m miising some details and there will be actually an “manually excluded list” so we can keep using ACE in wideagmut mode, but this summary looks bad…

    2nd link is like AMD sRGB emulation and LeDoge’s novideo_sRGB, thus limited to “ideal” (matrix) description of displays, like Apple’s XDR presets. Not the best it could be, but fine. A cool feature will be to embed on system level volumetric colorspace correction with a GPU assited LUT3D like Ledoge’s DWMLUT… but with current well behaved IPS panels a lut-matrix-lut will do the job.

    #37348

    Vincent
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    Note: like in apple’s ecosystem this is the  end of table/XYZLUT profiles.
    If DWMLUT still works in those W11 or W12 versions with ACM, users with a bad behaved display (a display that cannot be described accurately with a matrix single curve profile) could use LeDoge’s DWMLUT to linearize display behavior and then publish to OS in new ACM format the ideal characteristic of the display.
    This is the same we are doing right now with Adobe ACE to avoid color tints in grey gradients (a LUT3D from ideal natiuve gamut to actual native gamut, then publish in OS idealized native gamut profile as display profile)

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Vincent.
    #37418

    speedy
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    Is anyone currently working on adding functionality to DisplayCal for generating “ICC Profiles (Advanced Color)” that Windows is now using?

    I’ve been able to generate these using the new built-in “Windows HDR Calibration” app, but that tool only lets you eyeball the profiles. It would be amazing to be able to generate these profiles with my colorimeter.

    #37419

    zunderholz
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    Looks like someone has started working on an experimental tool to make new ICCs compatible with Windows ACM from DisplayCal ICCs.

    https://github.com/dantmnf/MHC2

    May be a project to watch.

    #37420

    Vincent
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    Looks like someone has started working on an experimental tool to make new ICCs compatible with Windows ACM from DisplayCal ICCs.

    https://github.com/dantmnf/MHC2

    May be a project to watch.

    oh!

    https://github.com/dantmnf/AMDColorTweaks

    I should test this

    #37425

    Vincent
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    Looks like someone has started working on an experimental tool to make new ICCs compatible with Windows ACM from DisplayCal ICCs.

    https://github.com/dantmnf/MHC2

    May be a project to watch.

    oh!

    https://github.com/dantmnf/AMDColorTweaks

    I should test this

    Colorspace simulations seems to do not work on my system (W10) but i’m using legacy drivers for old RNDA Radeon HD

    #37431

    MW
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    Colorspace simulations seems to do not work on my system (W10) but i’m using legacy drivers for old RNDA Radeon HD

    Mines a 2016 RX480 on Windows 11. I’m able to make some arbitrary colorspace conversions but the  options don’t work as expected with my DisplayCal profile. Anyone had any luck with AMDColorTweaks? BTW I Can’t download MHC2Gen because it’s blocked by Windows security, yet virustotal reports it clean: https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/a9cf2925f6bea04528bb4ea5c4eeed7efc3edf044c425d91e7719a032963fbfe

    #37432

    MW
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    Managed to generate some profiles with MHC2Gen and load them into Windows color management panel, after disabling windows defender temporarily. Things work as expected except a massive  drop. Not sure if a bug of if the profiles were generated with non native white level, cant fins a command for this if that the case.

    #37433

    zunderholz
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    I just downloaded it and Windows Defender didn’t complain. Did you download the latest dev version? https://github.com/dantmnf/MHC2/releases/tag/ci-build

    #37434

    MW
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    I just downloaded it and Windows Defender didn’t complain. Did you download the latest dev version? https://github.com/dantmnf/MHC2/releases/tag/ci-build

    Yes, the same one.

    Things work as expected except a massive  drop.

    Should say: Things work as expected except a massive brightness drop.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by MW.
    #37439

    MW
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    I worked around my issue with the brightness drop. I only needed to turn my display off and turn it back on again.  Works on fullscreen exclusive apps too! Right now it seems I’m getting sRGB TRC instead of my preferred pure 2.2 gamma. I will post a measurement report in the next days.

    When I try to use ACM it seems no color tranformations are taking place. OTOH I’m not sure I have the right expectations of how ACM works, the links provided are over my head.

    Sorry for OT only tangentially related to ACM. But I hope this is useful info nonetheless about an alternative to DWMLUT for AMD.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by MW.
    #37446

    MW
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    To be clear, my test shows using MHC2gen for a basic sRGB clamp(CSC mode) work system wide, including fullscreen exclusive apps, without ACM enabled in the OS. I don’t know if it works with Windows versions older than 11 22H2 because of that. I you want to found out quickly feel free to test the profile I generated for my P3 gaming display.

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    #37449

    zunderholz
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    That’s good to hear. I think for now, I’m going to continue using novideo_srgb, because it’ll do a “calibration” to srgb beyond just clamping. I have a samsung gaming monitor that supports 10 bit colour, I just don’t know if any of the apps I’m using right now would actually support a wider gamut, and using MHC2gen I’ll probably lose that rough srgb calibration. I could be wrong though. Going to keep an eye on it.

    #37551

    Miguel Angel
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    To be clear, my test shows using MHC2gen for a basic sRGB clamp(CSC mode) work system wide, including fullscreen exclusive apps, without ACM enabled in the OS. I don’t know if it works with Windows versions older than 11 22H2 because of that. I you want to found out quickly feel free to test the profile I generated for my P3 gaming display.

    Thanks, works like a charm in my wide gamut OLED Asus laptop. I was using DWM_LUT but it not works in Windows 11 22H2. Sorry but i’m a total newbie…. Is your profile “valid” for my laptop or should use MHC2gen to generate a CSC from my displaycal profile? If that’s the case, I’d really appreciate some basic newbie instructions. Regards

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