LG 32EP950 (JOLED panel) and i1 Display Pro issues with Red

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  • #37964

    Mark Walter
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    Well there is also the calibrite software which I didn’t use. I used both devices as described above.

    #37965

    Marko82
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    Sorry mark…there are swveral message and more than one iser in the whole thread.

    Which are the two instrument you used?

    One works better then other?

    #37966

    Marko82
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    Ok, I got it. You used Colormunky photo and i1d3….both perform the same with LG software?

    Ar the link i sent a few minutes ago TFT xentral said that just colormunky photo(spectro) works fine despite of colorimeter.

    #37967

    Vincent
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    No, I just used LG calibration studio. It’s pretty straight forward and simple to use. It can talk to the hardware of your monitor (like calman), and store the calibration there. So you just select on the monitor which colorspace you want, rec709 or srgb and there you go.

    This is the reason:

    Regarding red channel nead black readings with i1displaypro colorimeter it seems that there is no update on Xrite site. This won’t be an issue for calibration with LG software since it aims (like any other vendor app for calibratin) for a matrix profile with too few 3d mesh measurements and native gamma ramps with few measurements too (vendor apps fro calibration assume near ideal behavior of thir displays, so calibration is fast…. but if QC is bad that calibration may be innacurate). So it won’t notice it because it won’t measure those colors.

    And if display is well behaved it won’t matter because it can be described by primaries and grey gamma ramp.

    Much easier than display cal as there are not that many options.

    They do different things.
    If you have a monitor with HW cal … first use it. If it behaves badly, because poor software (colorimeter corrections on Benq) or because bad QC of manufacturer hardware (high grey errors / high grey combined a*b* range) you can use ArgyllCMS to correct grayscale or measure full volumetric colorspace to make a LUT3D which you can load in GPU (DWMLUT) or Resolve.

    i1Display Pro on Amazon  
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    #37968

    Vincent
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    We just need Florian back. Best support!

    He won’t help you with 0 value readings in red channel near black using i1d3 colorimeter. DispayCAL is a front end… this is not a DisplayCAL issue.
    (but on verification greyed out he can help mac users)

    This RGBOLED reading issue is up to Graeme and ArgyllCMS, or Xrite and their SDK for software that uses it (CALMAN, LG… et cetera). If solution exists it needs to be applied there, not in displaycal.

    #37988

    Marko82
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    Mark sorry…i conpleyely missed your message #37961 thankyou a lot…I really hope LG software works fine even under Win10

    I’ m going to make a verific on display cal as  vincent suggest and I’ll upload result here

    #38012

    Kuba Trybowski
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    My laptop’s OLED display has a similar problem. I was able to partially solve it by increasing the panel’s brightness level from 80 to 100 cd/m2 and using more color patches.

    I calibrate my display with an i1 Display Pro Plus and DisplayCAL linked to the latest version of Argyll (2.3.1.).

    i1Display Pro Plus on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #38244

    atagunov
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    Hi,

    [1]

    just an idea: changing something in 32ep950 prior to calibration with DisplayCal could “fix” i1d3 right?
    something that’d clip the gamut?

    [2]

    if Ted/Steve claim i1d3 would have worked with their software, it might be possible to test with LightSpace ZRO?
    That one is still free of charge right?
    If i1d3 does misbehave in LightSpace there should be some way to observe that via ZRO version

    [3]

    Two bits of info from Ted caught my attention in LiftGammaGain thread about 32ep950

    an advice on how to get measuring or calibration of 32ep950 unstuck in his software with i1d3:

    Use 0.75 sec integration time, AIO mode, 0.5 sec extra delay, Intelligent Integrator 1, disable low light average
    two

    and the following statement:

    CalMAN, HCFR, or DisplayCAL are not using AIO mode

    I’m wondering if Graeme Gill had seen those and what he’d say.
    Would you have a link to an online archive of that mailing list conversation with him on the issue?

    [4]

    The whole story will probably be part of the reason I will not be trying to acquire a 32ep950 myself yet, even though I’m aware JOLED has gone bankrupt and monitors of this vintange – RGB OLED may cease to exist on the market entirely for a while. The other reason are the horror stories on that liftgammagain thread about “light leakage” and some “purple fringes” on black plaguing 4 out of 5 32ep950 in Europe.. Brr.. The cost is pretty high too. Might look into some EIZO instead, giving up on “inky blacks” and giving up on a close match to my living room LG OLED TV

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by atagunov.
    #38279

    Vincent
    Participant
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    Hi,

    [1]

    just an idea: changing something in 32ep950 prior to calibration with DisplayCal could “fix” i1d3 right?
    something that’d clip the gamut?

    I’d say no, SPD will be the same but emulating (R+G+B ) some primaries. Near black the mix may give a wrong color since filters at configured integration time reports no light from R channel, so it may just measured G+B mix.

    Try to verify a simple LUT3D from MadVR or a device link from EDID coordinates to sRGB. It should send “mixed primaries” RGB combination for dark sRGB red colors… like sRGB emulation does inside display.
    This will give you more fredom to test the threshold in mixing where measured value goes to 0.
    You can do it even with MS paint and spotread, find the threshold in R channel( RGB 51, 0, 0? I do not remember) and start mixing G + B till it measures something.

    [2]

    if Ted/Steve claim i1d3 would have worked with their software, it might be possible to test with LightSpace ZRO?
    That one is still free of charge right?

    No, payment needed, See their web.

    If i1d3 does misbehave in LightSpace there should be some way to observe that via ZRO version

    Yes.

    [3]

    Two bits of info from Ted caught my attention in LiftGammaGain thread about 32ep950

    an advice on how to get measuring or calibration of 32ep950 unstuck in his software with i1d3:

    Use 0.75 sec integration time, AIO mode, 0.5 sec extra delay, Intelligent Integrator 1, disable low light average
    two

    and the following statement:

    CalMAN, HCFR, or DisplayCAL are not using AIO mode

    I’m wondering if Graeme Gill had seen those and what he’d say.
    Would you have a link to an online archive of that mailing list conversation with him on the issue?

    Keep in mid that an i1d3 its just a HID device receiving commands. If you take a look on ArgyllCMS code you’ll se that current implementation sends measurement command reads and if it reports values under some threshold value it retries same command with modified params.

    If they did mamage to find the proper value for these RGB OLED (for example an addition iteration of measuring if value is below some threshold) it may be ported to ArgyllCMS. =>“There is no magic AIO mode”.

    Current threshold values in i1d3 measure command seems to be hardcoded but IDNK if it was just a port of reversely engineered i1d3 SDK or fould by trial & error by Graeme. Ask him.

    [4]

    The whole story will probably be part of the reason I will not be trying to acquire a 32ep950 myself yet, even though I’m aware JOLED has gone bankrupt and monitors of this vintange – RGB OLED may cease to exist on the market entirely for a while. The other reason are the horror stories on that liftgammagain thread about “light leakage” and some “purple fringes” on black plaguing 4 out of 5 32ep950 in Europe.. Brr.. The cost is pretty high too. Might look into some EIZO instead, giving up on “inky blacks” and giving up on a close match to my living room LG OLED TV

    #38283

    MW
    Participant
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    Curious request, can someone post a measurement report on a curve/s+matrix profile?

    #38297

    atagunov
    Participant
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    There is no magic AIO mode

    Hi,

    it is interesting however that Ted is writing about it quite convincingly. Here’s a quote from “ColourSpace ZRO – Recommended settings as starting point” web page on light illusion:

    i1Display PRO-based colorimeters are available with A-02 or B-02 firmware.
    B-02 FW can use AIO mode and Intelligent Integrator; it’s the best option for i1Display PRO users.

    For B-02 FW, the standard integration time, which provides some decent results with various panel techs, is 0.75 sec with intelligent integrator 1.
    For OLED users, Integration time 0.25 sec with intelligent integrator 2, can provide a speed improvement, then you want to perform a faster 1000p verification.

    However, 0.75 sec with intelligent integrator 1 is the standard recommendation for OLED users.
    It will provide a good balance between speed/repeatability.

    For A-02 FW or for ColorMunki/i1Display Studio users, use BURST mode 1.5 sec integration time and tick average low light.
    The AIO mode with B-02 FW can reduce the measuring capability to the very low end.

    Some projectors/plasmas with very deep black, when AIO mode is used, they may not be able to measure their black level.
    Users of B-02, with JVC projectors, for example, can try to take the same measurements with BURST mode 1.5 sec to see if they can get a valid black level reading.

    If they can get a black reading with BURST 1.5 sec integration time, then they can use this setting with intelligent integrator 1 for the remaining calibration.
    If BURST mode is not able to measure black level, then use AIO mode with intelligent integrator 1.

    A-02 FW is not compatible with Intelligent Integrator, so users will have to use the Average Low Light.

    Graeme. Ask him

    Yep, I’ve subscribed to his mailing list and posting there too.

    i1Display Studio on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #38298

    Vincent
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    There is no magic AIO mode

    Hi,

    it is interesting however that Ted is writing about it quite convincingly. Here’s a quote from “ColourSpace ZRO – Recommended settings as starting point” web page on light illusion:

    i1Display PRO-based colorimeters are available with A-02 or B-02 firmware.
    B-02 FW can use AIO mode and Intelligent Integrator; it’s the best option for i1Display PRO users.

    For B-02 FW, the standard integration time, which provides some decent results with various panel techs, is 0.75 sec with intelligent integrator 1.
    For OLED users, Integration time 0.25 sec with intelligent integrator 2, can provide a speed improvement, then you want to perform a faster 1000p verification.

    However, 0.75 sec with intelligent integrator 1 is the standard recommendation for OLED users.
    It will provide a good balance between speed/repeatability.

    For A-02 FW or for ColorMunki/i1Display Studio users, use BURST mode 1.5 sec integration time and tick average low light.
    The AIO mode with B-02 FW can reduce the measuring capability to the very low end.

    Some projectors/plasmas with very deep black, when AIO mode is used, they may not be able to measure their black level.
    Users of B-02, with JVC projectors, for example, can try to take the same measurements with BURST mode 1.5 sec to see if they can get a valid black level reading.

    If they can get a black reading with BURST 1.5 sec integration time, then they can use this setting with intelligent integrator 1 for the remaining calibration.
    If BURST mode is not able to measure black level, then use AIO mode with intelligent integrator 1.

    A-02 FW is not compatible with Intelligent Integrator, so users will have to use the Average Low Light.

    Graeme. Ask him

    Yep, I’ve subscribed to his mailing list and posting there too.

    I just checked Argyll source 2.3.1 and there is a new AIO command for rev B. but ARgyll does not use it (yet)

    /* i1d3 command codes. */
    /* A 64 bit command/response buffer is always used, communicating */
    /* over EP 0x81 and 0x01. The command byte 0 is the major code, */
    /* and byte 1 is the sub code for command 0x00 . The response is byte 0 */
    /* error code, byte 1 echoing the major command number. */
    /* Major code 00 works when locked ? */
    /* Response codes:
    
    00 OK
    83 After pulse count measure in low light. Means ???
    
    */
    typedef enum {
    i1d3_getinfo = 0x0000, /* Product name + Firmware version + Firmware Date string */
    i1d3_status = 0x0001, /* status number ?? */
    i1d3_prodname = 0x0010, /* Product name string */
    i1d3_prodtype = 0x0011, /* Product type number */
    i1d3_firmver = 0x0012, /* Firmware version string */
    i1d3_firmdate = 0x0013, /* Firmware date string */
    i1d3_locked = 0x0020, /* Get locked status */
    i1d3_freqmeas = 0x0100, /* Measure transition over given time */
    i1d3_periodmeas = 0x0200, /* Measure time between transition count */
    // i1d3_aiomeas = 0x0400, /* AIO measure ? (Rev. B) */
    i1d3_readintee = 0x0800, /* Read internal EEPROM */
    i1d3_readextee = 0x1200, /* Read external EEPROM */
    i1d3_setled = 0x2100, /* Set the LED state */
    i1d3_rd_sensor = 0x9300, /* Read the analog sensor */
    i1d3_get_diff = 0x9400, /* Get the diffuser position */
    i1d3_lockchal = 0x9900, /* Request lock challenge */
    i1d3_lockresp = 0x9a00, /* Unlock response */
    i1d3_relock = 0x9b00 /* Close device - relock ? */
    } i1Disp3CC;

    For thresholds just look for i1d3_imp_measure_refresh & i1d3_period_measure. JOLED issues using non AIO read may be solved with a tweaked param and a recall of one of these commands when measured values falls under certain treshold.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by Vincent.
    #38338

    atagunov
    Participant
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    My laptop’s OLED display has a similar problem. I was able to partially solve it by increasing the panel’s brightness level from 80 to 100 cd/m2 and using more color patches.

    I calibrate my display with an i1 Display Pro Plus and DisplayCAL linked to the latest version of Argyll (2.3.1.).

    It is really interesting that we have this problem report as well.
    Could you possibly describe in more detail what you do and what result you get?
    Did you do the “spotread” command?
    Is your i1d3 Revision B?

    It is also really interesting to compare what Argyll does on your display with your i1d3
    to what ColorSpace does on the same display with the same probe.

    ColorSpace ZRO is free of charge.
    Do you feel interested to try and confirm if the two pieces of software behave differently?

    In my view ColorSpace ZRO is worth having as yet one more way to validate your calibration/profiling.
    ColorSpace comes with rather specific instructions on which options to choose in the UI.
    If you search for “ColourSpace ZRO – Recommended settings as starting point” on lightillusion.com you will find them.

    Right now we don’t know if ColorSpace team have figured out a way to read dark colors off OLED displays using i1d3 better than Argyll or not. Doing the tests might help answer the question.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by atagunov.
    #38428

    Kuba Trybowski
    Participant
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    ColourSpace ZRO isn’t free of charge. It costs $35 and I’m not willing to pay for something that might not work for me.

    I attached an example, detailed DisplayCAL verification report.

    I get the best results by using an XYZ + Matrix profile, setting the calibration speed to “Low” and using 5,000 color parches (Very large testchart for LUT profiles) . Adding any more color patches changes nothing  and might even produce worse results.

    The whole calibration process takes nearly 2.5 hours + about 30 min. to verify the results.

    Unfortunately, I don’t know the firmware revision of my probe.

    I’ve never tried the “spotread” tool, though it might be worth giving a shot.

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #38440

    Vincent
    Participant
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    Right now we don’t know if ColorSpace team have figured out a way to read dark colors off OLED displays using i1d3 better than Argyll or not. Doing the tests might help answer the question.

    According to ArgyllCMS source there is actually a new command sent through USB, AIO mode.
    I had not checked argyll source for a long time and I had not noticed it and i thought AIO was just a new set of hardcoded params for iterative measurement.
    Argyll right now does not uses it, but LI seems to have access to OEM SDK with full detailed documentation so if this new command works better in oled right readisng… yes, they have it.

    Another question is if iterative measurements used by argyll with its 2 current commands when returned value falls bellow some threshold value can be improved for these JOLEDs. It will be hit and miss, maybe Graeme do not want to do this tiresome process without paypal support. IDNK, but maybe it’s the reason maillist threads about this didn’t go further.

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