Do I need an exception for mpv and mpc-hc in DisplayCAL Profile Loader?

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  • #141070

    averagePedestrian
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    When using DisplayCAL Profile Loader to apply the icc profile for my display, and having the –icc-profile-auto option enabled in mpv, is it necessary to configure an exception for mpv in DisplayCAL Profile Loader? If so, should I select “Disable profile loader” or “Reset video card gamma table” when setting the exception?

    #141071

    Ben
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    Thanks for the question.  Hope it is a good answer.

    No.   Try to understand the notices.  Profile loader and mpv are separate.    MPV want to use the icc profile automatically.  I think it knows when to use it.   Displaycal profile loader does not block a app from loading unless it is app that is disabled.   In windows 10 I do not see the “disable profile loader” in 3.8.9.3 display cal profile loader.    Reset video card gamma table   resets the 1d video card gamma table to no lut table to adjust video card gama- ie makes it a straight 45 degree angle of 1 to 255 brightness.  Zero can not have a angle and should be 0 for black is black.

    Any unknown details?   If it is a 3d lut sometimes people do not like a 1d video card gamma table since it was made with it not enabled.    Your 3d lut is different than a icc profile.   3d luts have to have the right gamma to work right.   I tryed a 3d lut but it was worse unable to see black level 2 bars from black.   It was 2.2 gamma relative and not default 1886.   1886 might be better in 3d but in hardware gamma 2.2 with a curve at black  looks better.   So many ways to calibrate.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Ben.
    #141074

    Vincent
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    ICC color management = app expects display to behave as ICC profile says
    On a GPU calibration ICC profile (dispaly behavior) is created from measurements AFTER VCGT grey calibration is applied, so as a general rule if you clean VCGT in GPU, display ICC profile and dispaly behavior won’t match. So no, do not reset GPU VCGT

    On the other side, madVR LUT3D is created (usually) in a way it will embed in LUT3D the VCGT, so you have to disable VCGT calibartion (and it does it by default), otherwise it will apply GPU calibration twice.

    On another example if you wish to use a LUT3D in Resove for GUI on a general purpose monitor, that is going to be used for other things, you do not embed VCGT in LUT3D, so DIsplayCAL loader will stay always enabled for all apps, for example runing Resolve and Photoshop at the same time to correct some logo or whatever situation you may imagine.

    As you can see it is simple to predict when and when not to disable GPU, it’s all about how is created ICC profile or LUT3D => you have to preserve that behavior.

    #141076

    averagePedestrian
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    ICC color management = app expects display to behave as ICC profile says
    On a GPU calibration ICC profile (dispaly behavior) is created from measurements AFTER VCGT grey calibration is applied, so as a general rule if you clean VCGT in GPU, display ICC profile and dispaly behavior won’t match. So no, do not reset GPU VCGT

    I posted the exact same question on the mpv GitHub issues, and a contributor suggested this:

    If you are using color correction in mpv, you should reset video card gamma table, which would be applied on top.

    You seem to suggest the opposite and I’m not sure which one of you is correct.

    #141077

    Ben
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    What are useing a 3d lut or ICC ?  Are you on Linux?   No difference in the way works though.   A lot less easy to me to use linux.  MPC-HC has options for different renders and I could not find a option in MPC-HC to load a profile.  I rememember windows media player classic did.    Madvr can use a 3d lut so perhaps you’re using a 3d lut.   Vincent covered the 3d lut part.

    I see the exceptions now in display cal profile loader.   It is a pain not seeing.   Sorry I was wrong about not knowing where to set exceptions.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Ben.
    #141079

    averagePedestrian
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    What are useing a 3d lut or ICC ?  Are you on Linux?   No difference in the way works though.   A lot less easy to me to use linux.  MPC-HC has options for different renders and I could not find a option in MPC-HC to load a profile.  I rememember windows media player classic did.    Madvr can use a 3d lut so perhaps you’re using a 3d lut.   Vincent covered the 3d lut part.

    I see the exceptions now in display cal profile loader.   It is a pain not seeing.   Sorry I was wrong about not knowing where to set exceptions.

    I am using an ICC and I am on windows

    #141080

    Ben
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    Thanks.   Well no you do not need to disable the color profile.   You can if you want to see what native looks like.  You can just switch the active profile in windows loader to a different color correction with different gamma and color correction.   The default Windows ones do not have a video card gamma table and a profile does not have to have one.  A profile describes its color abilities at a certain gamma.

    #141081

    Vincent
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    ICC color management = app expects display to behave as ICC profile says
    On a GPU calibration ICC profile (dispaly behavior) is created from measurements AFTER VCGT grey calibration is applied, so as a general rule if you clean VCGT in GPU, display ICC profile and dispaly behavior won’t match. So no, do not reset GPU VCGT

    I posted the exact same question on the mpv GitHub issues, and a contributor suggested this:

    If you are using color correction in mpv, you should reset video card gamma table, which would be applied on top.

    You seem to suggest the opposite and I’m not sure which one of you is correct.

    As explained before you should not disable VCGT for apps relying on ICC color management.
    *IF* mpv reads and reaply VCGT then mpv is malfunctioning and then there is no reason to use it (MPC-variant + madVR)

    #141082

    Vincent
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    And *if* mpv supports some know format for LUT3D instead of relying on ICC files, you should apply what I explained before in Resolve example. How you create LUT3D will force how to use it (w or w/o VCGT).

    #141083

    averagePedestrian
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    I am a complete newbie so you’ll have to bear with me. Also, I’m using someone else’s ICC profile because I don’t have a colorimeter.

    1. Is my understanding correct that DisplayCAL profile loader loads calibration curves from ICC files into the VCGT?

    2. If I have multiple ICC profiles for my monitor, is there a way to view the callibration curves stored within each profile?

    3. Finally, can I tell which tone curve (sRGB, Gamma 2.2 Gamma 2.4, Rec. 1886, Rec. 709, As measured) was used during calibration by examining the ICC file itself?

    #141084

    Ben
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    question 1 is yes.

    2 You can use profile loader to view the profiles in its profile association section seen with right click on it.    Going all the way down you even see its color coverage and accuracy.   Nice it shows the edid color coordinates of the tv or monitor.   You can see calibration curves with dropdown box at the top middle screen.

    3 You only get a sense of the tone curve and its hard or impossible to tell black compensated or not to my knowledge.   Tone curve is based on a specific monitor.  your monitor is different even if same model.  Not greatly different but every panel is unique with millions of pixels on it.

    #141085

    averagePedestrian
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    2 You can use profile loader to view the profiles in its profile association section seen with right click on it.    Going all the way down you even see its color coverage and accuracy.   Nice it shows the edid color coordinates of the tv or monitor.   You can see calibration curves with dropdown box at the top middle screen.

    Is this it?

    3 You only get a sense of the tone curve and its hard or impossible to tell black compensated or not to my knowledge.   Tone curve is based on a specific monitor.  your monitor is different even if same model.  Not greatly different but every panel is unique with millions of pixels on it.

    Here it shows averaged RGB transfer function = Rec. 1886. Does this mean the tone curve used during calibration was Rec. 1886?

    #141086

    Vincent
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    rtings  profiles have no calibration, so they are mostly useless (unless used to make LUT3D) since there no be non color managed desktop change with them and they are liklely to suffer grey ramp coloration in color managed apps since “grey correction” is made in color managed app by 3 different TRC more prone to rounding errors after truncation (unless app has dithering like LR or Capture One)
    Also the whole “post calibration picture” in rtings is misleading, since it is testing a color managed simulation of sRGB (or whetever target they aim).

    Not the best source of other people’s profile. Mostly useless

    #141087

    Vincent
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    rtings profile = displaycal custom profile where:
    -calibration tab all set to as measured (after setting manually white to D65 with whatever RGB gain settings)
    -profile tab: matrix, 3TRC, no BPC

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Vincent.
    #141089

    averagePedestrian
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    unless used to make LUT3D

    How do I make a LUT3D using this profile?

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