PS LR and C1 show wrong colors

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  • #27174

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    I spent a lot of time earlier reporting on what I thought was a fix for a problem which took me (now at least 10 hrs- replaced everything afresh apart from W10). I pressed ‘post’ but think it disappeared without trace, probably because I did not fill in subject matter.

    Trying to be brief, 2nd time writing – see the attached jpeg- multiple monitors – screen grab of 2 identical single channel mono images – one was on main monitor and the other was on second monitor.  Main monitor shows bad color but if I move the file 51% to the second monitor and PS loads the profile for the second monitor – the part of the image left on the first monitor is perfect with no yellow. The yellow cast is only seen on PS, LR, Bridge and Capture One. Every other program displays it right on every monitor. PS only is set for 10 bit color in GPU.

    This did not happen till 2 days ago. No idea what it is but if I choose any other profile except for those made by Displaycal, then PS displays proper mono image (talking about this one file – but all images now have the yellow cast).   Many older displaycal profiles were fine before 2 days ago but ‘all’ went bad. None which worked for months were usable any more.

    The one exception was end of today now when I turned on modify the DTP94 Xrite sensor to Wide Gamut display (S-IPS generic) and that profile (done on fastest low quality). It worked earlier and   works ok now. I thought I had solved the problem. I used exactly the same settings and put it to scan again with the same settings except for using highest quality (near 2 hours). That scan is now yellow again.

    I include the displaycal profile that works ok and the new one which is back to yellow – and include the logs – which I think were all thrown away at one point – hopefully only today’s data.  Hopefully these give a clue what goes.

    Windows 10 has been updated with every update till now – saw your note about problems and I went today earlier – and did the optional update and that did nothing (I think) because it was perhaps 4 hours before I got the one good test profile which is attached.

    I hope this helps with a solution and of course saves others the same difficulties I faced

    Best wishes

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    #27177

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    One more thing worth mentioning – I posted some months ago about problems with PS when some filters and many third party plugins were used – when I invoked them they displayed wrong color in their windows and when file was returned to PS – it too had lost its color profile. Every time I had to go to color settings which when it opened returned PS to the right color.  Well – so far as I can see – the good of the two profiles I just attached works in such a way that the above problem does not occur.

    I forgot to say that a nearly identical second computer – no Nvidia display calibrates fine with old settings – never had the lost profile experience with plugins.

    I have thrown PS prefs – uninstalled and updated PS on the troublesome main machine – nothing changed. I uninstalled displaycal – threw away all the prefs and started again also – no change

    #27185

    MW
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    NSFW tag that picture!
    If you are reading RAW files it’s normal. Both softwares have their own way of interpreting color.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MW.
    #27188

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    Thanks for the reply. I am sorry if I did not explain myself adequately.

    Your concerns  appear to be a long way from the issue in question.  RAW is not  relevant to the issue in any way and I am not clear what ‘both softwares’ you are referring to might be.

    I am not sure whether to try to explain the entire two posts above but mostly  I will just address your ref to the attached jpeg.

    That image was a screen shot (of a film scan btw). As I said – it was two identical images – both mono channel (so zero color) with identical profiles (20%), open side by side in PS.    There is only PS involved – no other programs.

    One was placed on my main monitor and one was on my secondary monitor. You cannot see the dividing line between the two monitors of course, because the the capture program captured the entire area seamlessly –  but you can see what PS does to either image when is dragged to the main screen .

    It is not important how accurate my photo is or whether it has a profile. You can see approximately that one image is monochrome and the other is tinted. You can  accept my word that the monochrome image appears perfectly untinted on the second monitor and  if placed entirely on the first monitor it turns yellow.

    But to repeat – if I take the photoshop window with one of the images and place it overlapping between both monitors, but mostly on the second monitor, the image looks perfect on the main monitor (ie no yellow tint).  It is photoshop which changes the image on the main monitor in such a way that it looks yellow tinted. It displays it as monochrome when it uses the profile data of the second monitor and applies that to the bit of the image on the first monitor. Perhaps I will try shoot that with phone.

    The calibration is perfect on the main monitor with explorer and the monochrome image looks perfect and indistinguishable visually/color wise in Illustrator, Indesign,  Media Pro,  browsers, thunderbird and indeed every program I have. The tint is only seen with Bridge, PS and Lightroom.  They must share the same profile engine I guess.

    The image still looks untinted/monochrome  and does not flip or change with moving between monitors when I chose any monitor profile I made with Colorvision software for example.  The image looks untinted and clearly monochrome when I choose any other profile with windows  display settings – ie AdobeRGB but it reverts to that strong yellow when I choose any of the displaycal profiles I made and have used for the last year.

    It confuses me now – but in fact – at the end of the day – after trying many different settings – the screen display also ended up looking fine, when used on ONE of the Displaycal profiles I attached.  To repeat – the two profiles included were done without changing ANY settings in displaycal – other than the number of patches.

    I would have suspected there was something unstable in the sensor puck – but ALL the old fairly good profiles from the last year went yellow the last 3 days. That would point to something changed with Windows instead I suppose. But why does this only happen now to Displaycal profiles. Why did it not happen to that one low swatch sample profile – and why does this not apply to new or old profiles for the other monitor.  The only difference is that this monitor is wide gamut – but it worked ok before.

    I wll shoot some phone pics to illustrate the issue perhaps and upload later but I think that  data and profiles related to the jpeg I uploaded is not really crucial to the diagnosis.   It was just to give a broad sense of what is going  on.

    #27191

    MW
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    I can definitely see the yellowish hue in the left window. You mentioned LR and C1 and it’s important to understand both take an interpretive approach to color, even when you crate your own custom profiles. This boils down to inherent differences between ICC and DNG formats. Its also easy to set up defaults that shift the colors on import which happens to many users inadvertently. Yes, even for bitmapped images. That’s why PS is a better tool for comparisons. If your Spyder is using a different backlight correction or observer model between the stock software and DisplayCAL that might be a cause for the discrepancy so I’d suggest investigating those options.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MW.
    #27193

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    Thanks again for the reply

    I am familiar with the concept of  what you mentioned  – that LR and C1 both take an interpretive approach to color, even when you crate your own custom profiles.  I experience that all the time when processing RAW files.

    The problem I am experiencing occurs in Photoshop, which is my critical tool – and it refers to either opening a non RAW tiff or even just making a new mono channel file and applying a brushstroke to it. There, clearly there is interpretation occurring in Photoshop too

    The interpretation is not how to interpret the file  as with LR or C1- it is how to adapt the display of that file to the particular window it is displayed on.

    It is not that one monitor is yellow and the other not  – they both appear pretty much identical. As I said – PS will display without yellow cast when the window is mostly on one monitor or on the other. The whites on both screens are the same – the menus and palettes are the same on both monitors and nothing changes when you move them around . All that changes is the content of the image in PS – or C1 or LR.  And nothing happens and there is no yellow when you open in other programs or move them around.

    I am not using my Spyder at all – only mentioned monitor profiles which are still lying around on my drive which I loaded for comparison – and those do not show yellow when PS pic is shown on the main screen.

    I am using Xrite puck solely with displaycal and comparing the results with displaycal created profiles

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by biped.
    #27195

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    Whereas I am not sure why this should have been inconsistent, I suspect I may have got to the bottom of the issue.

    The software related to the hp dreamcolor 2480zx monitor had a profile loader component which ran at startup.  I have disabled it and thus far have not seen the outrageous yellow casts after startup. I am going to recalibrate all monitors properly and see if these issues return

    I will update if this was not the cause.

    #27196

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    May as well confirm – the HP profile loader appears to have been the problem . Who knows why the inconsistency, but stopping it from starting up with the computer has worked. I am guessing it attempted to load a profile into the monitor bios and perhaps there was a double application of profiles at different times.

    #27216

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    So much for yesterday when I thought the problem had been solved – I will post later with more data. I dont think that the machine had been restarted even but this morning the profiles which worked yesterday showed yellow again. Only one profile worked – the one I uploaded earlier. I screen captured the failures in detail – will upload – including my settings. I did another cal with DisplayCAL and only changed one thing – that was the speed to fastest (fewer samples I assume) and this profile seems to be perfect. The earlier profiles including ones that worked weeks ago are all yellow.

    #27219

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    For clarity I will compartmentalize into a few posts which may need to be cross referenced and all are in context to my prior dense posts. Hopefully from this post forward, suffices.

    Here are the settings I used and here are 2 profiles which were created.

    The only difference between them is that the speed went from ‘low’ – which produced the bad yellow highlight casts –  and the other profile which was set to ‘very high’, which produces none of the dysfunction – and actually looks pretty good.

    Other posts describe the what the dysfunction was – with screen shots with notes  (yellow casts only in some cases on one screen).

    HP-5-Long-WideLow2-LP2480zx #2 2020-12-06 23-47 2.2 S XYZLUT+MTX.icm    is bad – was done with LOW calibration speed

    HP-5-Long-WideLow2-LP2480zx #2 2020-12-07 11-40 2.2 VF-S XYZLUT+MTX.icm   is good  –  was done with VERY HIGH calibration speed.

    There were no changes in anything else between each calibration.

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    #27225

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    The Scenario relevant to the following screen shots

    • Windows 10
    • DTP94 Xrite sensor
    • 3 displays
      Left = laptop low grade – calibrated with same settings without ‘wide
      gamut’ mod and at medium speed – no issues relate to this

      Midde = HP Dreamcolor 2480zx – the problem monitor – via HDMI

      Right = another  HP Dreamcolor 2480zx but used via  USB link – therefore no calibration possible – set to generic. No calibration but still looks visually good in fact even more neutral than the middle calibrated monitor, if only judging on neutral monochrome. I dont use this for color assessment – just menus etc for PS

      Attached jpegs only related to photoshop and yellow cast

    • 2020-12-07_10-31-26       photoshop – main screen – bad cast
    • 2020-12-07_10-32-22       photoshop – more that 50% moved to left screen – looks neutral on both screens
    • 2020-12-07_10-32-43    photoshop – less that 50% moved to left screen – looks yellow on both screens
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    #27229

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    the screen shots here are from  other programs – mainly with the color settings visible

    Notes included in each image
    Summary

    Programs which showed yellow cast in the same limited circumstances as in the prior post- ie mid monitor and tones were correct on other monitors:
    Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, Gimp when profiling enabled

    Programs which did not show the yellow cast at any time
    Indesign, Illustrator, Faststone Image Viewer

    All other programs including explorer and browsers inc Firefox did not have any yellow cast

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    #27235

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    Please look at the prior 4 posts which precede this – I kept them separate for clarity.

    ——————————-
    I would conclude that calibrating using  LOW calibration speed created profiles which somehow do not work with the HP wide gamut display. Only PS was manually set to use 10 bit display.

    But what confuses this is that all other older profiles which had worked well for months suddenly all went yellow. Only one worked still – which was a profile done on ‘Very High’.  (Note –  none of these were ever calibrated with wide adjustment set in Display cal)

    I would prefer to calibrate to the limit of my devices if possible. Screen gives confidence on LOW calibration speed but if possible, it would be great to get to the bottom of this – and try to improve the result.

    Thanks for any thoughts suggestions – happy to provide more data if requested

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by biped.
    #27246

    MW
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    Looks like something isn’t working correctly with profiles. You could make a test profile with tone curve to “as measured”.  That would also allow the USB connected monitor to have correct colors in PS. The downside is that non-color managed programs will be uncorrected. HIGH might sound nice but you are still at the mercy of the GPU with that setting. Compare that to going profile-only and you are looking a something with less points of failure.

    If you want to to become confident about calibration results the best tool is the verification tab, it actually gives you some numbers to compare with when trying different settings.

    Coming back so solving issues since the cause is unclear I’d tackle troubleshooting by ruling out more basic issue. Would you rather spend time testing without reaching a conclusion? Probably not worth the time. For ruling out software conflicts testing on a fresh install would be needed. All monitors need to be reset to factory settings, but with full native gamuts selected(recommended regardless with DispalyCAL), and no manufacturer software or drivers installed only using the argyll drivers and the DisplayCAL profile loader and one or two monitors connected at the most before moving on.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MW.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MW.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by MW.
    #27258

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    Thanks for the advice. Yes, I have other stuff to to. At least I have a usable system right now, but I will be back to see if I can make progress in a day or two. Will report

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