Blue looks purple

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  • #24002

    Vincent
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    1. User made 3nmm are good (the ones 1 linked), but low resolution. Use the (i) button next to colorimeter corrections and you’ll see a 2D plot so you can compare them to CCFL 1nm or WG ccfl 1nm.
      It’s like going from a rescaled 100x100pixel x6 (10nm) , 300x300pixel (3nm) reescaled x2 or a 600×600 pixel image (1nm). Something goes missing in low res image.
    2. DisplayCAL: Correction WG CCFL (PA241W), profile type gamma + matrix, black point compensation on. Correction is wrong for your HP (red is not equal) but DisplayCAL measuremenst should equal to munki software. Also resulting profile will be “idealized” too.
    #24004

    frenksisco
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    User made 3nmm are good (the ones 1 linked), but low resolution. Use the (i) button next to colorimeter corrections and you’ll see a 2D plot so you can compare them to CCFL 1nm or WG ccfl 1nm.

    – With (i) button nex to the correction I chose I see this

    No idea of what you mean for “compare them to CCFL 1nm or WG ccfl 1nm.” beacuse there are no such type of correction for my monitor, Do you mean I have to use a CCSS for a different monitor like the PA241W you’re talking about next? Also “comparison” means nothing for me. “Comparison” by eye? “Comparison through what?” If you talk about comparing data in a CCSS file I understand that. Not in graph by eye..  So please answer the question clearly, with the names and precise steps otherwise it is impossible for me to understand and it takes 2 messages to understand a singol concept .

    DisplayCAL: Correction WG CCFL (PA241W), profile type gamma + matrix, black point compensation on. Correction is wrong for your HP (red is not equal) but DisplayCAL measuremenst should equal to munki software. Also resulting profile will be “idealized” too.

    If I understand correctly, same doubt as above, I have to use a CCSS for PA241W monitor. Which one? In that page I can’t find a 1nm CCSS. So again, I don’t understand what it is for. CCSS form different monitor with the same 3.3nm measurement resolution as mine…

    I swear I never understood something so slowly … And I fought with things like Autocad and After Effects expressions … I’am quite ashamed

    #24005

    Vincent
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    Default bundled CCSS corrections for i1d3 family of colorimeters:
    http://displaycal.net/i1d3

    Didn’t install it b default? Anyway, here they are:
    CCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss => sRGB CCFL, common sRGB CCFL displays
    WGCCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss => WG CCFL, latest CCFL widegamut like NEC PA241W or Dell U2410.

    Your HP uses an intermediate technology between them

    Calibrite Display Pro HL on Amazon  
    Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

    #24006

    Vincent
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    SRGB / widegamut. Do you see? Your HP is a transition tech between them: old red, new G & B. CCSS @3nm “flattens” some spikes and that modifies DisplayCAL 2D plot for example of blue primary.

    *****

    Fast answer= use PA241W WG CCFL correction bundled with displaycal. It’s like munki software. But red is “wrong” ***IF*** your i1d3 colorimeter does not match std observer CIE 1931 2 degree on those red wavelegths. In an oversimplification a CCSS corrects a colorimeter where its sensivity curves (stored in firmware) diverge from a chosen std observer. If they are almost equal does nothing.

    More difficult answer = make yourself a CCSS from those 2 @1nm. White should be computed by yourself by a sum. Spreadsheet helps. Also it can be plotted in an spreadsheet to make sure you are adding tehm in a proper way. Also since it’s  1nm correction all “headers” in your HP CCSS does not work here, you should use all “text header stuff” from a 1nm file.
    Not easy, but it can be done.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by Vincent.
    #24008

    frenksisco
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    I definitively have big problems with your way of explaining. I repeat I take the blame but you very rarely answer the direct question.
    I ask a precise question and you answer according to another logic.
    I told you the PA241W CCSS has no 1nm coorections and you respond:

    make yourself a CCSS from those 2 @1nm.

    I repeat: “from those 2 @1nm” which? There are no 1nm ccss for “LP2275w”, “PA241W” and even for “U2410″. So what do I combine with what? The names.. I need the names..
    Example of an understandable way of responding:
    ” take that ccss file, for that name and date (PA241W or U2410 or CCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss or WGCCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss?????????), open it in a textpad and copy that specific group of data (the n.2 the red group right?) – now take the ccss file of your monitor ( or the name of the ccss you mean, don’t say “it”, “them” “both”) – delete that data group and paste here the data you copied. Now you have to correct the sum of these data in the first group. Ok this your holy CCSS file”….

    in particular

    Also since it’s  1nm correction all “headers” in your HP CCSS does not work here, you should use all “text header stuff” from a 1nm file.
    Not easy, but it can be done.

    “t’s  1nm correction” – Who is it? I repeat I don’t see any 1nm correction, all I find are 10nm and 3,3nm for whatever file you named.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by frenksisco.
    #24010

    Vincent
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    All of the bundled ones are 1nm. You don’t see it because you did not install them. They are in the link I provided (http://displaycal.net/i1d3). Model names are inside text file or in combo box name when you add them to the available corrections in DisplayCAL.

    Use the bundled one (1nm) for PA241W (WGCCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss), it’s the same correction used by Munki software. Choose gamma+matrix or single curve+matrix profile type and calibrate. It’s easy.

    If you want to do it the other way, with a better CCSS for your display… try to open those CCSS files (do not overwrite them!) and figure what they store: spectral power distributions (between BEGIN DATA END DATA)
    Once you learn by yourself what they are, or plot their graph in an spreadsheet likde DisplayCAL does, you’ll see that is trivial to mix them in the way I instructed, but as long as you do not understand it… maybe it’s pointless to go on that rute. So read my 2nd paragraph and this message and go for a matrix profile with PA241W correction

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by Vincent.
    #24014

    frenksisco
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    OK I’m sorry, we can stop. I’ve had enough.  The second way, the thing that interested me most, it is definitely impossible for someone who doesn’t have the knowledge you have. Also, you keep saying things like “those CCSS files” when I asked to be precise. You ask me to “figure what they store” and to “learn by yourself what they are” but, forgive me, it’s ridiculous. For 3 days I have tried to learn by you how to solve a problem that DisplayCAL should solve. In vain. But the problem is not my monitor or my brain. The problem is that DisplayCAL doesn’t work anymore with monitors like mine, which many people still use. So the right thing to do, as DisplayCAL team, is to remove all the HP LP2275w CCSS files from the archive to prevent someone like me from thinking they are correct and use them.

    I don’t even intend to try the first way because rather than calibrating my monitor with the CCSS of another monitor I prefer to choose a safer way and calibrate it with the colormunki software which, unlike displayCAL, does it correctly, even with my monitor.

    Anyway. Sorry for the outburst but it was an absurd experience. I thank you once again from the heart for your patience and I am deeply sorry for not being able to practice what you have tried to explain to me. Unfortunately I was looking for a solution not a master in colorimetry. Thanks again

    p.s. obviously for me the topic remains unsolved

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by frenksisco.
    #24018

    Vincent
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    OK I’m sorry, we can stop. I’ve had enough.  The second way, the thing that interested me most, it is definitely impossible for someone who doesn’t have the knowledge you have. Also, you keep saying things like “those CCSS files” when I asked to be precise. You ask me to “figure what they store” and to “learn by yourself what they are” but, forgive me, it’s ridiculous. For 3 days I have tried to learn by you how to solve a problem that DisplayCAL should solve. In vain. But the problem is not my monitor or my brain. The problem is that DisplayCAL doesn’t work anymore with monitors like mine, which many people still use. So the right thing to do, as DisplayCAL team, is to remove all the HP LP2275w CCSS files from the archive to prevent someone like me from thinking they are correct and use them.

    It’s not may fault that you do not understand the basics.

    You said that user made 3nm samples did not work for you. Maybe its the lack of some detail as you can see from the other 2 plots attached some messages above: one sRGB CCFL, the other one WG CCFL. That may be the cause of your issue. A 10nm sample will lack more detail.
    Also *your* choice of profile type may be one of the causes too. AFAIK chosen profile type remains unknown too.

    As you can see from those plots: 2 plots (mine) with 1nm and a 3nm plot (yours) your display technology is between them (between my 2 spectral power distribution plots), between old sRGB CCFL and new WG CCFL present in more modern displays like PA241W.
    That technology was short lived because its limitations and was replaced by WG CCFL you see in my 2nd plot. So that backlight is NOT supported by Xrite software. Also it is not bundled by default in diplaycal default corrections… corrections that YOU did not install by unknown reason. This is the reason you can’t see spectral correction for PA241W I talked about among other things.

    So:

    -you own a display with an old and short lived backlight technology
    -it is NOT supported by default by vendor or 3rd party software (not bundled with that software)
    -there are user made corrections, but they lack in detail and as you can see from your own CIE xy plot, blue… is not blue, its moved upward. Lack of “detail” may be one of the causes of your issues.
    you lack of a reference device to make a correction from actual measurements

    but

    -you can made by yourself the missing correction. YOU. I’m not going to do it even if I can, because that way you won’t understand what you are doing.
    -The way of making that missing correction at 1nm resolution is to take spactral data from RED channel in old sRGB CCFL CCSS and then BLUE and GREEN spectral data from new WG CCFL CCSS into a NEW file. DisplayCAL DOES have those 2 CCSS… but YOU did not install them (reasons still unknown)
    -CCSS usually have spectral data in 4 row blocks, usual order in each block is WRGB. So you are missing white, 1st one. White can be calculated ading your new handpicked RGB spectral data from the other two CCSS.
    -using one of the bundled CCSS in displaycal (which are 1nm) as a template, it is not so dificult to copy & paste 4 rows of spectral data, change display model on top of the CCSS file and save it to a text file named “My 1nm HP LP2275w.ccss” of whatever name you like.

    If that part is too complicated for you, just use 1nm bundled corrections… those ones YOU did not install for still unknown reasons.

    I don’t even intend to try the first way because rather than calibrating my monitor with the CCSS of another monitor I prefer to choose a safer way and calibrate it with the colormunki software which, unlike displayCAL, does it correctly, even with my monitor.

    Anyway. Sorry for the outburst but it was an absurd experience. I thank you once again from the heart for your patience and I am deeply sorry for not being able to practice what you have tried to explain to me. Unfortunately I was looking for a solution not a master in colorimetry. Thanks again

    p.s. obviously for me the topic remains unsolved

    But it is… time ago:

    In that case try to use the same over simplified profile type like munki software (likely to me 1curve + matrix or single curve matrx), same colorimeter correction, but use the advanced capabilities form ArgyllCMS for correcting better thet grey.

    […]

    DisplayCAL: Correction WG CCFL (PA241W), profile type gamma + matrix, black point compensation on. Correction is wrong for your HP (red is not equal) but DisplayCAL measuremenst should equal to munki software. Also resulting profile will be “idealized” too.

    […]

    Use the bundled one (1nm) for PA241W (WGCCFLFamily_07Feb11.ccss), it’s the same correction used by Munki software. Choose gamma+matrix or single curve+matrix profile type and calibrate. It’s easy.

    Same as Munki, better grey ramp (since it takes more measurements)

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by Vincent.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by Vincent.
    #24019

    Florian Höch
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    Your native display blue is more cyanish than the sRGB blue, which is more saturated. Naturally, color management corrects for this. There’s nothing wrong with your result – the “purple” (not really purple, just not as cyan) is correct.

    EDIT: Also, Chrome and Edge are not color managed – that is your native display gamut blue, not the correct sRGB one (all assuming you’re working with sRGB imagery).

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by Florian Höch.
    #24023

    Vincent
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    Your native display blue is more cyanish than the sRGB blue, which is more saturated. Naturally, color management corrects for this. There’s nothing wrong with your result – the “purple” (not really purple, just not as cyan) is correct.

    Maybe it’s user correction CCSS lack of detail that moves xy coordinates upward once integrated with standard observer.
    PA241W blue has not that issue and I would say that matches perfectly that old CCFL backlight, you can see the plots.

    #24024

    Florian Höch
    Administrator
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    Aren’t we talking HP LP2275w?

    #24025

    Vincent
    Participant
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    Aren’t we talking HP LP2275w?

    Yes, look at user made 3nm CCSS. Here:

    Reply To: Blue looks purple

    #24029

    frenksisco
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    I repeat: forgive me for the time I stole you, what I didn’t do was because I didn’t understand it. Not because I didn’t want to. For 3 days I asked many questions that you tidily answered only in the last message but, even now, I can say I understand just the theory, not the  procedure. I am strongly convinced this problem must be solved by the program, not by the user, otherwise it is like asking a mechanic’s customer to repair the car himself. In fact… in the meantime I have discovered the new xRite i1Studio software which replaces the old Colormunki Dispaly software that I used. In 30 minutes I’ve perfectly calibrated and profiled my monitor. The blue is no longer purple. It is a perfect blue…. And I didn’t have to build any CCSS by hand or attend a colorimetry course. Everything as easy as it should be.
    So, in respect of your work and dedication, if you consider it right you can close this topic as solved. You will consider it solved by your essay in quantum mechanics and I will consider it solved by xRite i1Studio . I think it’s a good compromise. Thanks again

    #24030

    Vincent
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    In fact… in the meantime I have discovered the new xRite i1Studio software which replaces the old Colormunki Dispaly software that I used. In 30 minutes I’ve perfectly calibrated and profiled my monitor. The blue is no longer purple. It is a perfect blue…. And I didn’t have to build any CCSS by hand or attend a colorimetry course. Everything as easy as it should be.

    Because you have used WG CCFL correction (PA241W) and then built a matrix profile in Xrite app… but you refuse to use DisplayCAL in that way (for still unknown reasons). It’s not an app problem… the problem is user that refuses to use it as he does with Xrite software.

    All about the new CCSS is about a “refining” available CCSS to one that suits better your display… because there is no software with a 1nm correction for your display technology. This a independent thing to using DisplayCAL.

    #24033

    frenksisco
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    Because you have used WG CCFL correction (PA241W) and then built a matrix profile in Xrite app

    No I haven’t used any “WG CCFL correction (PA241W) and then built a matrix profile in Xrite app” the program did it automatically.

    but you refuse to use DisplayCAL in that way (for still unknown reasons).

    I did not do that because it is not clear to me the reliability of that procedure compared to that of xRite. My fault

    It’s not an app problem… the problem is user that refuses to use it as he does with Xrite software.

    Oh no sorry but It is absolutely a DisplayCal issue. You don’t have to misunderstand me, I’m not here to discredit the program or the team work behind him. It is clearly a great free and usefull program. But:

    • if using DisplayCAL following the way explained in its guides it produces a wron calibration… DisplayCAL has an issue
    • if the program produces a wrong calibration due to a wrong CCSS it has an issue.
    • If the program does not give you a way to solve the problem through an intuitive procedure, it has an iusse
    • if you have to resort to a forum and follow a complicated procedure like yours to solve the issue… There is an issue
    • if the simple solution is to take WG CCFL correction for another monitor and then built a matrix profile in Xrite app – This is an issue – because it is not an intuitive procedure for a user
    • if we take 2 programs, made for the same purpose, both free, we use them in the same way (the way we find in their guides, not in the forums after 3 days of pain) and one produces a perfect calibration while the other turns blue in purple .. I think one is right while the other… has an issue

    We can go on for days if you want but the facts are:

    • I guilty chose an easier and faster way: use another program. I choose life instead of torture. I confess
    • DisplayCAL has an issue with my type of monitor that will not be resolved in future versions of the program or developing a correct CCSS for that monitor. xRite i1Studio instead automatically works perfectly even with my monitor.
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